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Attitudes and Discussions about Prenuptial Agreements in the Philippines

Prenuptial Agreement with a Filipina Who You Feel May be Lying to You.

Note: These are lay people, not lawyers, talking about prenuptial agreements. Since Marriage is for life in the Philippines, some of this may apply outside the Philippines, certainly for marriages consummated in the States with prenuptial agreements.  For more insight into the institution on marriage in the Philippines, read the Philippines Family code.  It has not changes much for years, is basically the same. Marriage is forever here except for some religions exempt from the Code and for divorces obtained by foreign spouses in countries that recognize divorce.  There are some insightful comments from our list members. Names have been changes for anonymity.

A List Member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LivingInThePhilippines3/join wrote, May 2009

I thinking about marring this woman and asked here to sign a prenuptial agreement to protect us both. This is one of her responses to me.

Dear Babe,

I've been reading about the "Prenuptial agreement" on the net. I fully understand the contents of it and the interest of each party but at the same time I don’t feel comfortable the idea about it. For the following reason are why:

1. I am a Filipina with values and in Philippines we are not practicing what the western does. when reading those agreement it seems like I am going to sign some corporation multi shareholder company which emphasize the clause of each shareholder investment. that can sell or terminate for such reason personal interest nor other shareholder benefits.. When reading it I feel like I am entering into business partnership need to protect investment and share not the marriage.

2. I am born Catholic even though I don’t go to church often. But the tradition and belief being Filipino and the values for the family is still there - family ties.

3. I do understand that you also need to protect your children and their best interest but babe DO NOT FORGET I also have children to protect too.

I also have properties to protect but never cross in my mind that when I get married my future husband will take away those from my children. Marrying someone is not easy that’s the reason why it takes time for me to chose the better and good husband. If I doubt you and think that you are kind of opportunist kind of person who is greedy, selfish and cannot trust I will never marry you or have a thought of marrying you. If I will marry you meaning I am prepared to build life with you and willing to share what I have and not set clause into our marriage. I Don’t like the idea of a very calculative relationship that what’s mine belong to mine and what yours belong to yours - meaning what kind of Relationship is this? If we have that kind of agreement then what’s the Point and reason of marrying? Better don’t get married then, just find someone temporary sex mate then if content and satisfied BYE AND NEXT!

That’s not the idea of marriage for me babe. Marriage is sacred and built with harmony and values. I do understand it happen allot in states or in the other country that marriage to them is just a game or changing disposing clothes when tired of using. my husband and I separated for many years before he died but never in my mind of divorcing him coz even though I don’t love him but I make a vow to be with him for the rest of our life but I also wont hold him nor myself if he want to divorce me so initially I am only waiting for him to process or divorcing me at least its not from me.

4. I have properties in Philippines and an apartment here in Singapore.  But I never thought of, this anything other than my children’s house,  not something belonging to someone else, even you.   We are accepting you as part of our life and family so what I have I am going to share it with you. In the event of my death I will make sure you are taking care of too. I am not thinking about myself only or my kids meaning us all, all seven of them.  For me what belong to my kids belong to them and what belong to me belongs to you meaning in the event of my death what ever my share between my kids goes to you or in the event of your death whatever belongs to you will go to your children. Simple as like that.

5. I am not going to prepare something I don’t intend to do... nor preparing for the divorce or annulment. I just spoke to my lawyer seeking some advice about the prenuptial agreement (I got scolded Marriage as it’s not in the church wedding) not she is not agreed about the prenuptial   agreement. But she mentioned to me that it is not recognize here in Singapore. there’s no such law in Singapore and the court will still decided Even you make such agreement. And I also called my lawyer back home and he did say the same thing.... my lawyers said, we are not western. That marriage is not very important but certain very multi rich people. In Asia does arrange prenuptial marriage if one parties nothing to offer or its something rich marrying poor. Otherwise its not practice nor legal here in Asia. BUT each one of us can make "LAST WILL TESTAMENT"... which is we practice in Asia and I also into that. Last Will of testament is more solid and concrete in court. Logically I am prepared to prepare last will of testament to avoid complication of interest and right between you and my children. But, not to something against my well and belief.

Babe, I don’t feel like I am going to itemize my asset and put that on the piece of paper and some clause before getting married. I trust you and I do believe you that you will take good care of me and I am not going to marry you into condition. I want a unconditionally love and marriage.

And if in case you want to divorce me DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO DO IM NOT GOIN TO CONTEST IT NOR TAKING WHATS NOT BELONGS TO ME.....don’t. Forget I have children too and we both aware of taking care our children. If someday you will kick my ass out of your house in states just let me know I won’t bother or waste my time getting what is not belong to me - I just packed my belonging and take what is mine and go back home. And, when comes to our joint investment lets decide what’s the best fair agreement....... BUT babe, I don’t want to think all of.

This right now coz I haven’t marry you yet and yet we are thinking or seems like preparing for the divorce already. Seems like we don’t trust each other and I don’t want to start thinking negative before marriage. I know you want to protect your interest and so do I babe and also I don’t want to think of you having that doubt of me in handling your money or our business. It’s hard to explain but to make it short what I am going to do is all about building our bright future with no time contract but it’s for the life time and passes to our children to their children. Babe what is mine is yours - what we have together is ours. If you doubt me or don’t trust me or if you think that I am that kind of person who is like “mine is mine, yours is mine and what for your children is mine too or everything is mine" PLEASE don’t marry me!! Coz I don’t want to marry someone who has that kind of mental attitude. I can proudly say that I’ve been blessed coz what I have and I get, I work it hard and get it in my own hard labor, my own hard sweat and blood .. I don’t steal or cheated someone just to get what I have  -above all I HAVE FEAR IN GOD and my marriage to you I will submit it to God so what will come someday I know God knows what’s the best for me..

baby I want to marry you coz I love you, I trust and respect you, I love you coz of who you are not for what you have and what material things you can offer. All this materials can change, purchase, return, break, can lost and sale but the respect for myself and values I have no price for that.

Cheers!! pls tell me what’s in your mind... I want to know what’s in your mind too.

Dear Lorenjtini

Looks like you have bumped up against a fundamental cultural difference. In the West with high divorce rates (over 50% in the U.S.), prenups especially for late marriages are simply a matter of prudence. In the Philippines a prenup is looked on as pre-planned divorce - - something along the lines of taking a hand grenade to a political rally, why in the world would you have one if you didn't plan to use it?

It sounds like she has property of her own and that she doesn't have an ulterior motive in avoiding a prenup.

That said, it is still prudent to protect yourself for a couple of reasons, one is that you don't want to enter a marriage with any seeds of doubt or mistrust about anything, including worries about what might happen to your property, income, etc. in the event of divorce and worry that you may have made a mistake in skipping the prenup.

The other is that in the real world, cross-cultural marriages and second marriages both do in fact have a higher chance of divorce (although it's been asserted on this forum that Phil-am marriages have a much lower divorce rate, and I suspect this is quite true).

There's a misconception about divorce that she gets half of everything, end of story, and this is simply not true. No question that men frequently get screwed in divorce, but marriage does not mean that you're irrevocably giving each other half of you property and future income forever, end of story.

You should see an attorney and talk about ways to preserve your "sole and separate" property short of a prenup, and perhaps even set up a trust. Property division rules vary widely by jurisdiction, and this is further complicated by what jurisdiction may eventually preside over a divorce (and also what jurisdiction will preside over "your" property) on the off chance that one occurs. Will you get married in your home country PLUS the Philippines? I'm guessing that you are from somewhere other than the U.S.

Whichever way you go, it's best to talk these things out with each other and not resort to deception about anything going into your marriage. You've encountered an early milestone along what will no doubt be a long voyage of discovery of cultural differences, and depending on your outlook they can become either part of the endless joy of marrying a Filipina or the bane of your marriage.

I do have to observe that your posting of her full e-mail to you including names shows more than a little mistrust on your part at this stage. It might be advisable for you to extend your period of courtship and spend significant time with each other in person before pulling the trigger on marriage.

Good luck to you.

R. C. Cphilipi

If she is not smart enough to understand the purpose and advantages of a prenup then I would ditch her. I was scammed by a Filipina and thank GOD I had enough common sense to have a good prenuptial and a good attorney. If you only have a small retirement and social security then maybe not so important but if you have extensive assets accumulated over a lifetime; why give someone an opportunity to screw you. I live in Texas and it is a community property state where you can have your spouse sign an agreement not to accumulate community property during the marriage. Just make sure you get her a good attorney too. Regardless of prenuptial you are also creating a lot of liability on a K-1 visa for the I-864 that you sign.

My advice is for you to do your homework and make your own decisions because you will be the one to live with them.

Lawrence

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