A very interesting synopsis, thanks! I haven't been nearly that well traveled in the RP. In the beginning I didn't think it made much difference where I was. My purpose wasn't to find a living place or enjoy the weather. It just so happened by chance that I spent most of the time in Abra and Cebu where I was sponsoring families. Both locations are terrific as far as I'm concerned. The people are very different, but they are the reasons for my visits and I like them all. I lived in Cebu City for a short time a few years ago and have spent only a few days at a time in Manila when I've had business there, but most of the time I've been in the provinces. I'm not a shopper or a mall kind of person. I think that after all of this time I happen to be partial to the west coast of Cebu, but I don't think it would make any difference to me where I first decide to settle. What makes a ""place"" are the people who live there.

I think that after all of this time I happen to be partial to the west coast of Cebu, Why do you say that, Ron. Maybe you can't put your finger on it, but maybe you can. but I don't think it would make any difference to me where I first decide to settle. What makes a ""place"" are the people who live there. True indeed, Ron. I, like you and most on the list and others who live here, chose the Philippines because of the Filipinos. We do not chose the Philippines because of the sun, sand, sea, surf, climate, superhighways, mountains or even malls as the case may be. They have those other things and more at many places in our world. But they are lacking the Filipinos, except in Daly City. And there, they too, are cold and too overworked to smile.

My Filipina wife and I want to live in the Philippines at least part- time when I retire in a few years. My hope is that we will be well- off enough to split time between the RP and Southern California, which we live in now and adore. The big catch: we haven't been back to the Phils since being married there in 1982. My wife grew up in the towns of Floridablanca and Guagua in Pampanga province, then went to Manila for college and, later, a government job. When we talk about where we would live, the only consensus we have reached is that we need to explore the country again before deciding. Not only because the country has changed, but because we have changed. Manila's drawbacks have been well-chronicled here and elsewhere, but we are used to an urban environment so we haven't scratched it off our list. Maybe a dose of reality on a revisit would do the trick :) Joy is lukewarm about returning to her hometowns; she thinks they would be too small for her. A personal goal for living there is to absorb some Filipino culture and attitudes, and socialize with some of the world's most sociable and hospitable people. I will echo what others said: people make a place. Proximity to relatives is a huge factor, of course. But I am mindful of others' comments that you can be TOO close to relatives. I consider myself a charitable person, but I wouldn't want to be a constant target for handouts, and I don't think my wife would, either. I don't think I want to give up some western comforts and the choices you have in a city. And I think I would cultivate and cherish friendships with like-minded expats (not the whiners). Given all this, I think we could wind up in a Manila suburb or the Subic area. Baguio is an option too, especially if we live there only in dry season. (That's the dream: Southern California in the summer, RP in the winter). Don's portrait of Cebu is wonderful, and parts of Mindanao are the stuff of picture postcards. But realistically, I don't think my wife would accept anything outside of central or northern Luzon. But that's a wild guess necessitated by a 19-year absence. Joy and I need to do lots of homework before deciding. Good fortune to all,.

This is a wonderful site. I wish I could contribute more often. Maybe there is another way to approach this important topic: where to live. It would seem that there are many many different factors/variables to consider. To name just a few: - cost of living - ""quality of life"" - cultural (both native and international) opportunities - quality of housing stock - quality of education - quality of health care - size/profile of expat community - ability to ""blend"" into local community etc., etc., etc........... While there are undoubtedly many helpful opinions regarding the best place to live (and I would love to hear of them) it might also be helpful to dig into what makes a place great, good or o.k. If I may also ask, we will be traveling to Puetra Gallera next month. Does anyone have any suggestions on places to stay, or eat or see. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas to all and a healthy and happy New Year, Bob Seller P.S. Is there any way I can spell check my messages. It a courtesy I would like to extend to those who are kind enough to read my messages.

I don't know if I can give an answer to that question that makes any sense Don. My choice of the west coast of Cebu was quite by chance and over the years I've become a fixture in the community. Maybe my answer is ""habit""! I think that a few of us have the same feeling and draw to the RP. As you have so eloquently said, we haven't been drawn by the weather or geography or personal comfort. For those who have yet to visit, let it be known that Filipinos are like any other group of folks. There are good and bad and all between. If you earn their respect you can't find more sincere friends and compatriots.

I think that after all of this time I happen to be partial to the west coast of Cebu, Why do you say that, Ron. Maybe you can't put your finger on it, but maybe you can. but I don't think it would make any difference to me where I first decide to settle. What makes a ""place"" are the people who live there. True indeed, Ron. I, like you and most on the list and others who live here, chose the Philippines because of the Filipinos. We do not chose the Philippines because of the sun, sand, sea, surf, climate, superhighways, mountains or even malls as the case may be. They have those other things and more at many places in our world. But they are lacking the Filipinos, except in Daly City. And there, they too, are cold and too overworked to smile.

Yes,It is very popular. I have corresponded with a guy that lives there and flies stunt kites. But I don't know much about it. Can you describe it, hotels, residences, in the mountains I assume. Is it hard to get to in the rainy season, mud slides or good safe roads. I understand it is more expensive but nicer than Baguio, more residential.

About your rating suggestion: 1. Asiaweek did a beautiful job for Asia and had a list of things including Purchasing Power Parity (PPP,) I believe, polution, telephones, tv's, schools, and many more. But they did only cities in Asia, and just went broke, a big loss for us who read it. It was online too. Often Davao and Cebu were best in the Philippines. Last time, 1999 I believe, Davao was 54 and Cebu 53 or some such. The mayor here said Davao inflated their employment figures to get the higher rating. The mayor of Davao would probably have said the same thing had Cebu come in higher. 2. The data would have to be very subjective, but worth a try. It could be something for the archives and even to post on the web page. 3. This, of course, would be from the point of view of the expat, since that is the site's main audience. Filipinos may possibly totally disagree. 4. I don't quite know how to start it. Maybe you already have. Lets see if there are other responses.

to be honest i havent been there yet. but from what my relatives tell me its a pretty good place to start a business. ill be moving to the pi between aug 2002 and feb 2003 and allready have a house in cavite city that belongs to my father in law that we can live in till we decide where we want to settle. ive been to the pi many times and miss the people and the way of life there.tagaytay is just one idea for a place to get something going.

Yes,It is very popular. I have corresponded with a guy that lives there and flies stunt kites. But I don't know much about it. Can you describe it, hotels, residences, in the mountains I assume. Is it hard to get to in the rainy season, mud slides or good safe roads. I understand it is more expensive but nicer than Baguio, more residential.

Based on Ron's excellent advice, I recently opened a savings account at Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation (HSBC). They have a rather large minimum for opening an account ($2,500 US), but I believe, in the long-term, they're reputation and service will be well-worth the initial investment. Now, the bad news. I'm in the process of wire transferring funds from my USA banks to HSBC. The problem I'm facing is the rather large fees charged by my USA banks for wire transfers. One bank (Bank of America) is going to charge $45 per transfer. Another lesser-known bank, but one that's always in the top three for service, will charge $35. Does anyone else feel these fees are large considering the information revolution's positive impact on international financial transactions? Or, am I just a cheap guy wondering what this fee is going toward? Commentary is welcome

I'll add another question to this. I think that Tagatay overlooks lake Taal which contains one of the most active volcanoes in the Philippines. If so, then for me this would be a good reason no to live there.

Re: discussion about Taal Lake/Tagatay, I have a photo of the lake in the Web Page folder in the photos section. I have no idea how active the volcano is. Taal Lake is a gorgeous place. It's been many years since I've been there, so I have little memory of Tagatay. But I remember it was pretty chilly, and I wished I had brought my jacket!

Banks and insurance companies maybe some of the worst corporate thieves when they can get away with it. Yes, these transfer fees in my opinion are indefensible but what can we do about it? There are some banks that even charge a fee for making a deposit. Ridiculous! Perhaps you can find a cheaper way to move money around. Are the transfers you mentioned between the US branches of different banks or US to overseas? I know you said ""to RP Bank"" but if that means to HSBC then would it be cheaper to first get the money to a US branch of HSBC? Are you near enough to the two banks to get the cash from one and physically bring it over to the other? When most people request a ""wire"" transfer they don't know or say anything about the means of making the ""wire"" transfer. For example your local BA may make the first transfer to BA New York (for a charge) then it will go HSBC possibly via another ""correspondent"" bank (more charges). The longer BA can keep the money in a loop which they control the more they will squeeze out of you in ""wire fees"", each step of the way. If you are paying for a service then you have every right to know what that service consists of and to negotiate. You need to talk to the transfer or ""wire"" departments of the banks to get the details. Find out the names of the ""correspondent"" banks used by both BA and HSBC in the US. If they both have arrangements with a ""correspondent"" bank that has a branch in your area then you may get a better deal by bringing or sending the money there first. Once you find out the cheapest or most efficient way for the transfer to be made you can tell BA to do it that way, ask them how much it will cost and tell them to justify the charges. Good Luck !

I am sorry I never had a chance to get thank you properly for this information. The things you say above make sense. I have been having such success with alternate ways of marketing, that I have not really been able to do the site submission as I want. But I will soon, I hope.

I am and always have been in good postition on Google for Living in the Philippines and Retiring in the Philippines, first for both last time I tried without quotes. Yahoo I am on, but way down. I will try to do better on Yahoo. I think I have one idea. On every page I have ""click on livinginthephilippines"" to join the list at the top and bottom. I have changed this to read ""click on living in the Philipppines."" Since Living and Philippines are key words the density increase may be helpful.

Do any of you expats use US-based remailing services such as Mailboxes Etc. as a permanent US mailing address and to make sure that your important mail (bank, credit card, mutual fund, insurance statements etc.) make it to the Philippines or do you have another solution?

My regional Bank (M&T) charges $15 for a wire transfer of any amount over $100. The transfers are made to a Philippines National Bank (PNB) account in an outlying branch. M&T claims the wire takes place 2:00 PM the same day the request is made. Previously the money actually ""appeared"" in the Philippines 3 to 5 days later. Presently the delay is 5 to 7 days ... the claim being global disruptions and money tracing investigations in the aftermath of 911. Since I do not transfer money often I do not find $15 unacceptable ... but I certainly do find $35 to $45 outrageous. My personal objection is the 5 to 7 day delay for a transaction that happens at the speed of electricity. I believe the banks conspire to sit of the funds and take advantage of the ""float."" If they can sit on 100,000 global wire transfers for days and days they make money. Wish I could do it. My opinion (no proof) is that most of the delay is PNB ... and I have heard others say that Philippine and other third world banks are very frugal and try any strategy to earn revenue ... even float on wire transfers.

I think I'm another one who needs to go the attributed route. I remember you expressed a very positive opinion as to the availability of top flight medical care in Cebu. For me, at my maturing stage, I believe I should have reasonable access to good health plants, doctors, after care, etc. I require easy access to some form of public transportation. As much as I have been accustomed to leaping into my vehicle and racing off 2 or 3 blocks to the drug store, I won't be sorry to ""let them do the driving"". I would prefer having an AA meeting within a reasonable distance. I would be delighted to find a ""GO"" club near enough for me to participate. I require reasonable stable telephone service primarily for computer use. I require easy access to a restfull vista. I prefer a marine vista though a fresh water vista is something to consider. When I think of a vista I flash on what I have seen in Washington state and Vancouver, BC and the San Juan Islands. That's what I think of as prime vista. Although High Desert has its own charm. I need to live near where I would reasonably go as a matter of course, such as a variety of stores (if there is no mall), church, library, local museums, that sort of thing. Besides the functional purpose of these places they are also places where others may be met informally.

Two documents you are required to have in order to remain in the Philippines permanently. I have no idea why, or why there are two of them. As I want to work in the Philippines I thought the 13A Visa was my best option. What sort of work do you intend doing?

I just have a post office box her in Cebu I have had ever since I have been here. My permanent residence is with friends in Reno but I get little mail there. My US bank statements come here, my credit card statements, my income tax stuff and almost everything else. I have never had a problem as far as I know. But there could be something that was sent to me that I never got and don't know about it. DHL world mail that Amazon.com used to send me took three months. I stopped using that. During the Christmas season mail is particularly slow, coming from he US as Filipinos are sending gifts. Most are not sending gifts from here to the US, just cards. So the mail to the US is not so slow, even at Christmas time. A lot of Filipinos who send things in the States send in November or December for Christmas. They send surface because it is much cheaper. But during the Christmas season it takes four or five months: Christmas gifts get here in April but are still welcome. I know I did not answer your question. But I am sure there are some who do. I did when I first visited in 1980. I had a post office box at a service in San Francisco. It did not work out well since I was having to have things forwarded anyway. Mail is generally slow here, very slow. When I charge something on a credit card I try to pay it the same day. It may take a month to get to the States. I can do online payment now. But I am in the habit of sending mail and my helper goes to the post office, so I have never gone high tech.

Why not try Ormoc City Leyte. It's only 1 hour with the supercat so you are still nearby Cebu City. They already won several times the award of being the cleanest city, no problem with brownouts because of the geothermal powerplants in Tongonan.

Thanks for the reply. So US banks, mutual funds, credit cards, IRS really will really pay overseas postage and not hassle you. That's great news. I had recalled earlier posts that credit card companies would immediately cancel your card when they found out that you were residing overseas so I thought one way around that would be a mail forwarding service. Back when I was living a more nomadic lifestyle I used the ""Wanderer's Mail Service"" in Seattle. That service was started in the 19th century to serve Gold Rush prospectors in the Klondike and is still in operation. Increasingly this stuff can be done online. I have a NetBank account. I get my statements in PDF form from their website. No use of the mails is needed. Perhaps the same can be done with mutual funds. I don't know if there are credit cards which are totally mail-free. Any additional advice would be appreciated.

Hello all, I will be making my 3rd trip to the philippines visiting family and investigatiing sites for future retirement and just having fun in general. My wife wants to be close to the family when we retire so we are considering The La Union area. Is there anyone in the group who lives there that I can tap for their knowledge on the area just north and south of San Fernando. Don thanks for your overview. I have been to Cebu twice and would love to settle outside Cebu City, in either the north or south part a of the island, but because of the above mentioned family issues it just doesn't seem practical, but your insights are really appreciated and any more you have will be considered with great attention. I must say to this site will make the transition from living in the States to the Philippines a much easier one. I have got answers to a lot of nagging questions that have gone unanswered until now. Thanks again for all your guys efforts.

Don't know about all that you asked. But some banks give you the option of getting statements via e-mail. This saves time and paper for you and them. Be aware that some banks will close your credit card and ATM if you submit a change of address (to countries that have fraud problems). Navy Federal Credit Union, used by some retired Marines and Sailors, have had this happen when they moved to Subic. My approach has been to request statements via e-mail and have card payments automatically drafted from my account. This requires more situational awareness on your part, but is painless if you are disciplined. Mutual fund companies will allow you to transfer money in and out of checking accounts over the internet. Anyone who is currently getting 457 defered comp payouts be aware that changes are taking place next year that will give us more flexibility and options with ""our"" money.

Based on Ron's excellent advice, I recently opened a savings account at Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation (HSBC). They have a rather large minimum for opening an account ($2,500 US), but I believe, in the long-term, they're reputation and service will be well-worth the initial investment. Now, the bad news. I'm in the process of wire transferring funds from my USA banks to HSBC. The problem I'm facing is the rather large fees charged by my USA banks for wire transfers. One bank (Bank of America) is going to charge $45 per transfer. Another lesser-known bank, but one that's always in the top three for service, will charge $35. Does anyone else feel these fees are large considering the information revolution's positive impact on international financial transactions? Or, am I just a cheap guy wondering what this fee is going toward? Commentary is welcome!!!!

Hello all, this is Charles. Wire transfer is nice if you want to withdraw within a week. My wife an I have a US dollar account in PCI bank in Mandaue City. When my wife was there in 2000, she signed checks from our account at BankOne. The checks are for deposit only. When we need to transfer money,which is often, (smile) My wife call or email her sister and tell her how much to deposit. However, it takes 27 banking days to clear. We;ve found this method to be easier and much,much cheaper. Of course, need someone there to handle this. wehave made many transfers this way and haven't lost a cent.

I'm selling my vacation property since I seldom visit the Philippines. It is right beside the SM Supermall in Bacoor, Cavite and it has been sold out after a few weeks in the market. I'm selling it for PHP 2.5M but negotiable. The place is quite and cozy, has the urban feel yet provincial and it is a few minutes drive to Alabang, Makati and a short drive to Tagaytay and white sand beaches of Cavite.

The individual below was remove for commercial posting that smelled bad to me, real estate company included. I read the profile this individual voluntarily submitted. This is not the kind of individual I would want to do business with if the profile was any indication of the personality. I removed the profile when I removed angelfire.

I have two Master Charges, that are in the US. One was formerly BA and changed. It is hard for me to get additional credit cards since I am judgment proof from consumer debt. One of my cards is Lafayette Federal Credit Union I got through the US Peace Corps, low interest rate and the other Is MBNA. I keep a low credit line on one and use it for Net purchases. So in case some thief gets my cc number and tries to go wild, they are not going wilder than a $1,000. They both and AMEX too, send my statements to my permanent address here. I can get my balance and pay on line with MBNA. Lafayette has problems with overseas people accessing their data base and they are working one it. My bank accounts are easy to access by the web, but slow.

I am sure others know more about this than I do. I am sure someone will tell you more. Robert Warren dabbles in the market here and has told me a lot about online banking. But most of it did not really interest me. As a former stock broker, I stay as far away from the market as I can. The market is for folks who really understand finance on a professional level and are very lucky too, like Robert. Robert knows the good banks too. He is in Texas now and has not been posting. I will try to wake him up. My bank transactions are so small, they don't mean too much to me. When I need money here, I just write a check on my US bank, deposit it in PNB and in 22 days it clears. Once that flow is started, there is no problem. When you open a dollar account here it may be the law or bank policy, but you have to have some dollar cash, at least $100 to open one, maybe $200. You can't just deposit a dollar check. That may be a good thing to keep in mind. If you deposit travelers checks you have to wait for them to clear. Better take them to AMEX and turn them into pesos, they won't give you US dollars now. You will get a low rate of exchange, but if you need money now, it is way. Money changers will give you better rates on travelers checks. Since I have been here a while there are changers around the main post office who will cash personal dollar checks for me and give me a better rate than American Express. but not much.

Hi I live in the CNMI, which is a US COmmonwealth east of the RP. If I do money transfers to the US, I look at the same figures as you do, $35 to $45. My own bank is the cheapest. The explanation I get is that we are considered a foreign country when it comes to money transfers (even if are supposed to be part of the US), and those are the international rates. Another way for the banking community to make money off us, I guess.

Look for us after the holidays, maybe February! I am supppppeeeeerrrr excited about getting out of the city. Now that we are settled and into a routine here I am ready to see and explore this wonderful country. I am going to make plans after I pay off Christmas. WalMart? Who needs WalMart when you can go shop the vendors at Greenhills and beyond. Besides, I have a wonderful helper to do all of my shopping.

I've been reading many posts concerning receiving mail in the PI. I've seen people mention using a ""mailboxes etc"" type of business to forward mail, and Don has talked about informing state-side businesses that my TEMPORARY address will be in the PI. I understand that many US banks will cancel accounts if they know you are in the PI. What is the concensus on the ""best"" way to have mail forwarded? I will be retiring from the US Military within the next few years and will move to the PI. Through information I've received from the VFW post folks in Angeles City, I will be entitled to a FPO PO Box at the US Embassay in Manila. Would this alarm US banks as to my location and possibly cause a cancelation of my credit card? Thanks in advance for your advice.

DAVAO CITY - Living in the Philippines - Why not try Davao City. For those people out there who are planning or thinking of living in the Philippines, and have yet to decide where, or those of you already living in a place you are not satisfied with - why not try Davao. Come visit us and see the difference, the same Philippine charm, but a very clean and well-ordered city. I have been here for over eight years and have found Davao to be an ideal place to live. No power problems, city wide water from the tap which is drinkable and with good pressure, clean well kept streets, an excellent peace and order record, and plenty of cheap good quality vegetables, fruits, meat and fish. On top of this we have many new and first class shopping malls, including SM, great hotels including Marco Polo, probably one of the best day beach resorts in the country within fifteen minutes of the city, (Paradise Beach), plus miles of open space. Within the city are four golf clubs, with very reasonable green fees. We are just off the Pacific coast line so our air is clean, we are outside of the typhoon belt so no high winds, and believe it or not most of our rain falls during the night. We are also the greenest and cleanest city in the Philippines. Too good to be true! Don't take my word for it Davao City has been voted by Asia Week magazine, out of Hong Kong, as the most livable city in the Philippines. It is also at the top end of the ranking as one of the most livable cities in the whole of Asia. Davao has a lot going for it, Consider it as the 'California' of the Philippines, as we have mostly immigrants from the Visayas and Luzon who have come here for a better life. The city has a population of approximately 1.2 million, and has one of the largest land areas for a city in the world. Vast areas of green surround us, including the highest mountain in the country Mount Apo, and just off the coast is one of the deepest parts of the Pacific ocean, the Mindanao Trench. Davao Oriental has some of the most beautiful scenery in the country, where the mountains really do meet the sea, with miles of beaches with high surf. One hour into the mountains at three to four thousand feet the coconuts disappear to be replace by pine trees, temperatures there vary between twelve and twenty eight degrees Celsius. On the fresh food side of things fruits are plentiful such as pineapples, banana's (even the type you get in the west which is the Cavandish variety), Durian, Lanzonies, Rumbatang, Pomelo, and of course Mangos. In the highlands strawberries grow wild, together with the cultivated varieties. The selection of vegetables is better than any I have seen elsewhere in the country, and include celery, leeks, lettuce, the very large tomato's, broccoli, and of course the normal stuff like potato's, carrots, cauliflower, egg plants etc. All meats are readily available with the exception of lamb, which is seldom seen. Beef (P145 Kg) is Australian raised and fattened in Mindanao. Fish are plentiful especially Tuna (P130) and Blue Marlin (P140). Davao is one of the best-kept secrets in the Philippines. We are miles away from the problems in the west of the island. The Mayor's number one priority is peace and order, and the streets are safe to walk at night. Land prices vary from P6,000 a meter in Insular Village to P1,000 in more outlying area's, in a good village with twenty four-hour security land prices are around P2,500. Price to build around P7,500 a meter depending on finish. Processing time for a city hall building permit about four weeks. The foreign community in Davao is small compared to Manila and Cebu, I would guess there are somewhere around one thousand of us here. Meeting places are Hagar's Bar, Red Knight Gardens, and a few of the major hotels + the coffee shop in Victoria Plaza. The local Immigration office can do everything you can do in Manila, but quicker, average time to extend a visa about thirty minutes. The new International Airport opens in the spring of 2002; there are currently international flights to Singapore with Silk Air, and to Indonesia with Bali Air. Domestically there are approximately fifteen flights daily to Manila, and six daily to Cebu, plus other flights to additional destinations. Come visit Davao and see the difference for yourself.