I guess what I have to offer is my time and energy. My background is in international sales and marketing, with some domestic (US) management experience. I certainly agree that it is desireable to have Filipinos working with Filipinos, but I also know that it is sometimes advantageous to have a Kano face involved in the process. Filipinos respond differently to Americans, and Americans often feel more comfortable with another American involved. In any case, I offer my services for whatever role that I can play. I'm dying to do something productive, since sitting around with nothing to do has gotten very old! Al, I believe you have hit on a problem in search of a solution, and this could be a very interesting project!

I have a terrible ability to express myself incompletely. I guess I was saying something like, if she is your endentured servant (and is unwilling to give this up to insure no loss of respect) are you then responsible for all medical care, weddings etc etc? Slavery/servitude is new to me. Im just curious if this oculd come back to bite you later.

Any combination or lack of combination that could insure that mistakes are really mistakes would work for me. (I can understand mistakes, but have already run into some that would test even the patience of Job.) Rick, if you are able to deal with Bogo, and dont mind an occasional trip up there, I can be happy working with you alone. If on the other hand, you see it as a problem, now or in the future, I can work with the filipino organization, or if everyone is more comfortable working together, that is fine with me. Im not talking mega bucks here, and that in itself might make the decision easy for one group of the other. Im talking about making sure school money goes for schooling, and a building gets built on a realistic budget or a jeepney gets legally bought and licensed etc. Either way, no mega bucks involved. Course, if you multiply it by the number of members not yet there, I guess it would buy a cold one or two. I am also sure that if we start with these two ideas, that it would grow to include other things as well. Please everyone if it sounds as if I dont trust filipinos, that is not true. I dont trust the filipinos I am dealing with, due to lack of training and the need to be well liked. Not due to an overpowering urge to steal from me. I know of no filipinos that I can involve myself with that has ever bought a car or had 10 years of school money in their hand at one time. I want to help but also can ill afford mistakes and multiple problems....so the mistrust is actually to their benefit, it makes sure my help does not stop abruptly due to misunderstandings and mistakes. As I stated, I will work it out with Leila before we begin talking details.

If I'm not mistaken, I think you are misinterpreting Don's experience with hiring the housekeeper. Arrangements such as hers aren't quite the same as that of an indentured servant where work is done on contract to pay for a debt. What could be happening is that when someone borrows from a friend or neighbor they may offer the use of one of themselves or one of their progeny to work for them in exchange for only their courtesy to make the loan. There is seldom if ever a written contract. Just an educated guess, but the aunt may owe the money or a favor to the other family and the niece has been offered as a payback courtesy.for the giving of the loan. These ""arrangements"" may last indefinitely until life circumstances change or until the lump sum of the loan is paid back. Everyone is happy with the arrangement including the niece because she is working at a time when jobs are very dear. Don enters the picture with a better job offer. If she were to just quit and move ov! er (even with notice) like you and I would readily do, the family she is working for could feel insulted and the niece's family would loose face. When Don takes care of this obligation, everyone will be happy. There's nothing unethical or immoral about it. It isn't slavery at all because the girl is receiving a salary and could voluntarily quit at any time (though it may be upsetting to all). It's just another part of life in the RP. You as an employer have many choices. You may choose to hire household help for a fixed salary per month and offer nothing else. Everyone would think you are stingy, but you still won't lack for applicants because jobs are scarce. It would be more ethical to give perks and this is done quite often when the employer has confidence in the help and can afford them. One of the basic perks is giving them their meals. Another would be in giving them a time off. Another might be to cover their basic medical needs. Many employers will give a Christmas bonus which could amount to another month's salary. The lady of the house might give her some used clothing. All of these things are voluntary. If I've missed the mark here, Don please correct me!

I will be staying at Ko Olina, west of Honolulu up past Pearl City and Waipahu on the Island of Oahu. That was my home for the last 15 years before I got enlightened and moved to Cebu. My wife needs to return to the States to fulfill INS requirements for her permanent Green Card, otherwise I wouldn't be going at all. Hawaii is a great place to live, but just too expensive.

I was hoping you were going to visit some of the outer islands especially the Big Island where I live. I just got back from 2 weeks in the Philippines, had a great time. Went to Banauae, Manila, Bohol and Cebu. Oh also Corregidor. Which was the highlite of the trip. I have an uncle who is buried at the Manila American cemetary whom I am named after. I went there to see if I could find out something about where his unit was about 1944-45. I am trying to get info from the U.S. government and all they will tell me is he died in Manila. I did this trip with my wife and a filipina friend who has a friend which she introduced me to last year. This lady's husband has 2 very large books from the U.S. government with alot of info on the war in the Philippines. hopefully maybe there will be some info on his unit there. It is extremely difficult to understand why our government cant tell me the circumstances of my uncles death. They only awarded him a silver star for whatever he died doing. I have been trying to decide if I should share my experiences with the group here from this last trip. Guess it was quite overwhelming. Oh well, thanks for responding

What you are talking about is more along the lines of what I had in mind. There is undoubtedly a need for a large, nationwide network of contacts providing these kind of services, but I was thinking on a much smaller more personal scale. Give me a call when you are ready and we can talk about it some more.

Thanks for your nice words. I will give you a run down of my experience, and I believe that will answer all your questions. Basically, I went into the business with my brother in law. I wanted him to manage the business and to have it set up where my involvement would be minimal or actually non-existant. That's pretty much how it is now, because I never get involved with the trikes.... my wife just gets the money daily or a few times a week. I bought 7 motorcycles and only 6 sidecars because I let my brother in law have one motorcycle for his personal use in exchange for his work in managing the other trikes. All of the drivers are people from my in-law's neighborhood, so we or the other family members know them and trust them. Here is our arrangement with the drivers: In the beginning they pay us P100/day to rent a trike. We are responsible for maintenance. During this initial time the bikes are in new/good shape so they don't require too much maintenance. We have bought some tires, sprockets, etc., but usually very minimal. After 2 years, the rent is increased to P150/day and all maintenance is on the shoulders of the driver. The same driver rents the same bike every day. After paying the P150 for 2 years then the driver owns the trike. At this time the unit is 4 years old, and maintenance is getting a lot higher. So, in short, in the term of 4 years I collect a total of P182,500 for each bike, which cost me P55,000. The driver gets his own ownership in the bike after 4 years and I am out of the picture. Now, potential downside.... I almost made a big mistake when I bought mine... make sure you don't do this! Check first, before buying everything and make sure you can get the franchise (get permission to operate the bikes in the area you are looking at) for the bikes. The number of bikes that operate in a particular area is regulated by the government, so if you buy the units and then can't operate them, you may not be happy! In our area, there were no openings available. Through developing personal relationships and buying a fair amount of beer I was able to obtain a franchise for my bikes, but it wasn't simple. Good luck!

As usual, Ron, you got it. Living here so long gives one insight you expect everyone to have. Then I remember how little I had when I came over and understand. This is a different world. Excuse me Al, for not being more direct and comprehensive as Ron was.

Dear friends, Without asking Nathan's approval I am sharing his post to me I just received. Don Mulligan is in town and so is Jim Chapman. I just talked to Don who suggested we get together at O'georg tomorrow at Ayala with who ever can show up. Rick Mike, Mike Rossiter, Chester Flakes and others I might be overlooking might want come too. Everyone in town is welcome. Remember, you must be in the Philippines or no invitation! Bring anyone you wish to bring. If someone has a better place or better time, please post. Don M. and I will be there at 12:00 noon. I hope to see you there Nathan too. Don M was concerned about you Bob when we talked. He said you had not posted in a while. I said I though you had. I am happy I will be able to let him know you are doing well.

I used the word endentured servitude after Don did. I didnt mean it to sound as harsh as it apparently did. But even if it is just a verbal contract, and he buys her out of it, does it put extra stress on the employee/employer relationship. I guess I used the word slavery incorrectly but it was mostly an exageration on my part to lighten up the subject. I often do this incorrectly.

This is something different about maids. I know several Filipinas don't want to hire a young maid because they are afraid the husband might start having an affair with the maid. I know personally a guy that ran away with the 18 yr old maid (it was even a cousin of the wife). What does your Ani think about this issue?

It's okay Al, I understand your question. No, there should be no stress or concern about the relationship between employer and employee. It's all business and voluntary. Nothing more is expected from an employer than what has been offered at the beginning. He's not responsible for any more than he has been willing to pay for. If there is a bias or edge, it goes in favor to the employer. In reference to Don's situation, I might add that if he pays the P3,000 to secure the deal and hasn't mentioned anything to the aunt about it being a loan beforehand, it will be assumed that he is forgiving the loan. As a matter of fact, this would most often be the case. Not to say that all of these ""relationships"" are harmless. There are cases of maids being abused, even to the point of an employer being arrested and convicted for assault, rape and murder. The frequency of these abuses drops rapidly with their severity, but they do occur occasionally.

To Whom It May Concern: All of these games can either be fun or they can have an adverse effect, depending on judgement, honesty, and honor. As many of you know, I am a man of 65, who, in my own opinion, uses sound judgement most of the time.. Where did I get this? Experience! How did I get my experience? Bad judgement. (-: I've learned the hard way. Ha. The knitty gritty is that we must possess the qualities above or the negatives will inevitably creep in. Trust is a must, or life's a bust. Any man with the above qualities will not run of with the maid. The word affair seems to have a very negative conotation. People of both sexes have friends of both sexes. I assume by using the word affair, it is meant that there is a romantice involvement, perhaps not to the exlusion of another, except in the deciet thereof. For me, I am very flexible as long as there is honesty. If we have honesty we can make intelligent decisions. Of course, if we think one situation is the case, and something new interfers with our lives, it is sometimes dificult to accept, but when there is openness and honesty, it lightens the burden, at least it does for me. The important thing to me is how I am treated by the others in my life, and I do my utmost to treat the others as I want to be treated. Whatever couples choose to do in their relationship, it should be with complete openness and honesty, in my opinion. Opression, supression, jealousy, etc. have no place in my world. Think about it. Which scenario would make you feel more comfortable?

These are special cases and it does happen that husbands and maids have affairs. Less frequently does the husband run off with the maid. Occasionally wives hire a maid for their husbands to relieve herself of the burden of marital fidelity. You'll find every aberration, but believe these cases are a small minority.

Subject: 7 Popular Regional Travel Destinations So Many Islands So Little Time 1) The Northern Luzon Provinces: Banaue's 2000 Year Old Rice Terraces and Sagada's Burial Caves and Hanging Coffins 2) Palawan's 1000 Islands including about 6 destinations, El Nido, Port Barton, Sabang's underground river, Coron's wreck diving, Caluit Island's 6 species of African animals running free and reproducing ( Zebras and Giraffes) and either Flower Island or San Vicente's long White Sand Beach, north of Port Barton. 3) Bohol's Chocolate Hills and Panglao's Alona Beach scene with overnight trips to Apo Island ( not to be confused with the Apo Island east of Palawan )offered to scuba diving enthusiasts. 4) Cebu's Moal Boal for diving, Malapascua and Bantayan Islands for less developed white sand beach scenes similiar to Boracay about 10 to 15 years ago. 5) Of course Boracay Island is my favorite scene with its breathtaking tropical beach scenery, located off the northwest coast of Panay Island in the western visayas. 6) Camiguin Island's water falls and variety of tropical scenery located just north of the northern coast of Mindanau. 7) The Surfer's Secret - Siargau's Big WAVES off the North East coast off Mindanao's Surigao Province

Climbing Mayon Volcano and a Fairy Tale First, a Fairytale before the climb. The Legend of Magayon Legend attempts to unravel the mystery of the origin of this magnificent chunk of earth. It seems that there once lived a very beautiful native princess who had an uncle named Magayon. He was so possessive of his niece that no man dared to challenge his wrath by courting the favors of the young maiden. One day, however, a brave and virile warrior was so smitten by the princess that he threw all cares to the wind, clambered up through the window of the royal chamber and enticed the girl to elope with him. With Magayon at their heels, the couple prayed to the gods for assistance. Suddenly from out of nowhere, a landslide buried the raging uncle alive. Local folks now claim that it is Magayon's anger bursting forth in the form of eruptions. Climbing Mayon, the Living Mountain Experience Mayon Volcano is the world's most perfect cone therefore on a clear day it makes a great photo opportunity. The challenge of traversing different terrains with varying degrees of difficulty: part jungle, part grassland, part desert of rocks and boulders. MAYON VOLCANO -- one of the most exciting mountains to climb in the Philippines; beautiful from a distance with tropical scenery but beware of its slopes where possible dangers await. Its rocky paths leading upward can mislead the uncautious climber and can be break away easily if you're not very careful so watch your steps because such a mistep could cause a dangerous avalanche. The safest approach to this 2,421 meter (8000 ft.) giant of Albay province is from the northwestern slope, which starts at 762 m above sea level on a ledge where the Philippine Institute of Volcanology and Seismology(PHIVOLCS) research station and the Mayon Resthouse are located. Of course make sure that it's safe to climb it without any recent eruptions making it impossible; it might be smart to hire a local guide. A narrow 8KM (5 mile )paved road links the place to the main highway. From the Observatory, the trail creeps upwards through a tropical ""jungle"" where you can enjoy a wide variety of tropicl plants. It then cuts across a talahib wilderness and swerves at approximately 1,220 m towards Buang Gully, a ravine formed by ancient, molten lava flow. On the gully's floor are depressions containing rainwater. At slightly above 1,524 m where water becomes scarce, Buang Gully branches out into two canals. The left fork leads to the transition line at 1,921 m where the grassland ends and the rocky slopes begin. This spot is ideal for a campsite since it is near enough to the summit yet far enough from poisonous fumes which sometimes snakes down the slopes with a sudden shift in wind direction. After scrambling over rocks and boulders, a cliff system is reached at 2,195 m. A 40- degree ascent on loose volcanic cinder and lava sand follows. And finally-the summit. Anyone here have any good photos of Mayon to share?

Ati Atihan, known as the Filipino Mardis Gras, is one of the best, most colorful fun festivals I've ever been to;1st time was 1980 then 1990, 1991,1993, 1998, and 2000. If you have time, it's next week beginning Jan. 18 for 3 days with the finale on Sunday Jan. 20, taking place the 3rd weekend in January every year in Kalibo, Aklan, Panay Island, Philippines. The fest is a celebration of the king of the ""Atis"" (the original aborigini inhabitants) agreement with the leader of the malays that came by ""banca"" from a renegade faction of one of Sabah's Sultanates in the 1200s, almost 800 years ago. Groups of drummers from each of more than 50 barrios in the province dress in incredibly, colorful, native costumes, dance to their various rythyms, and attract anyone who cares to join them for three days of fun. Another 50 or more local groups design their own colorful costumes and participate with drums, band instuments and whatever ""homemade ""instruments they can improvise providing new creativity each year to the festival. It's informality and active crowd participation help make it great fun. Since the small provincial capital of Kalibo is always overbooked it's best and more beautiful to stay on nearby Boracay Island's white sand beach. It's easy to hire a jeepney with driver 6am-sunset for $30 (shared by a group of people you meet on the beach usually) or a Toyota van with AC with driver $40 (room for 6). I have 7 photo albums full of blow ups are available at house (small hotel / hostel )at Villa Carolina Townhouse # 31 Tambo, Paranaque Metro-Manila. Tel 632-833-1939 fax 632-804-0161 our little hotel 1.5miles from both airports.

Iligan is called the city of waterfalls, since there are about 20 waterfalls in the surrounding area, 7 nearby and 13 are within 20 km. The most popular is Tinago Falls and there is even a zoo beside the natural pool. To go there, take the jeep bound to Buru-Un (same jeep going to Maria Christina falls and Timega Springs). Timago Springs are now equipped with several resorts, each of them having swimming pools at different levels. There are plenty of restaurants around. The less visited sights have some kind of basic refreshment available nearby. The tourist office is very helpful and provides information about the other waterfalls.(for the more adventurous,of course,go to the falls without a referral by the dept.-find your own place without me telling you which one)One of many places to lose yourself in the Philippine Islands on the north coast of the Big Island-Mindanao between Cagayan de Oro City and Ozamiz both places you can fly or take an inexpensive ship from Manila or Cebu. Anyone ever been to any of these waterfalls with their wives or family? Have any photos to share? Sounds like a good romantic adventure for some newly weds, eh?

I know they are special cases and the guy I was reffering about is the only one I know that run off with the maid/cousin. And also it's not only the husbands doing this. I also know wives having affairs with a Filipino boyfriend with or without the knowledge of the husband. The last question was intended for Don. Ron/Don hehehe I was mixed up.

Care to Debate Politics Anybody? - Will Philippines Style ""Democracy"" Ever Improve Filipino Life ? What is needed? Does the Philippines have a Chance? Feel Free to rave. Filipinos Need another ""Marcos"" like Dictator without a wife from poor origins this time. The ONLY WAY the Philippines will EVER break their complete failure of bringing some degree of prosperity to a majority of their people is to ALLOW a benevolent dictator, preferably, from an affluent background so their greed for money and personal wealth is not so strong. Imelda was the illegitimate daughter of a member of a wealthy Filipino Plantation family of Spanish ancestry and one of their maids. She grew up without shoes until she matured into a beautiful young woman the family could use to sway their young political opponent, Ferdinand Marcos to their policies. Thus the famous, collection of shoes and wholesale theft (especially during Marcos' last years when he was bedridden) was lead by imelda and her cronies. A ""Lee Kwan Yu""(sp?) style leader like Singapore who installs an almost ""big brother"" type of society for 20+ years is the ONLY WAY OUT, and very obvious when anyone looks at the recent history of the Philippines AND their neighboring countries. Also look at Spain whose culture with their ""I, my family, GOD and my country"" priorities has also influenced the Philippines; Spain had Franco and the Guardia Civil to discipline them. Without a policy of ""eminent domain"" which allows the government EXTRALEGAL POWERS to decide that ALL INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS which benefits the greater good of the people will DOMINATE over ANY ONE GROUP of Filipinos building a modern nation is IMPOSSIBLE. Look at ALL the other neighboring countries which have left their undeveloped nation status behind; EACH AND EVERY ONE HAS SUCH A POLICY. Do I think it's possible? NO I don't and stopped being optimistic about the future of the Philippines between 5 and 8 years ago. Their MAJOR EXPORT, their PEOPLE, both skilled and unskilled, will continue to help them escape the worst poverty (which will also prevent them from having the hungry, rebel spirit to change their system ). Filipinas, being INCREDIBLE WOMEN will continue to attract foreigners from around the world for their beauty and many positive traits making them exceptional wives. This will also lead to helping the poorest of poor survive and increased retirement in the Philippines, produce an increasing overseas Filipino population with strong cultural ties back to the Philippines. GMA is NOT THAT DICTATOR, did she, setting a trend of government taleover, do a diservice to the country? No and who knows maybe that ONE SPECIAL DICTATOR will come along before the Filipino population reaches 200 million. Estrada is a typical Filipino man who prefers eating, drinking, gambling, guns, chasing women, acquiring mistresses, making babies and using whatever power available to them to enrich themselves to support all of their favorite activities mentioned. And OF COURSE THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS TO ""TYPICAL"".

Excellent topic Don, but I would NOT recommend hiring the maid from so nearby especially since they have relations with the relatives. She might be good but WHY? when there are SO MANY CHOICES. Instead of ""buying"" her out of the P3000 debt just look in the local Cebu newspaper's classified ads for MAID'S SERVICES where you will likely find an agency who, for one month salary commission, send you one or more maid(s) (of course you pay the taxi ) whoyou can interview. Usually they guarantee replacements also within 6 months in case the one you hire leaves. Also it's good psychology in case the maid you hire plays mind games with you or your girlfriend when she KNOWS all you have to do is pick up the phone to REPLACE her.

This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for when I joined this list. We are/were thinking about trikes as a side business. Thanks for your excellent input on this subject. ?franchise fee? I would never have thought of it.

Condos in the philippines are a study in them self. I have two in makati, neither being of the high cost type yet both supply what mt wife and her family need. I have looked at like 50 apts, some way over priced, some substandard, some not bult yet , some will never be built. Main things I would look for are how good the title is, sprinklers, quality of construction, quality and amount of elevators, back up power, cost of parking and who's providing the construction financing. My wife and I are presently building a place on Panglao Island, Bohol and have no need for a mansion in Manila. The best deals we found in the high rent district was at Ayala West where one could get a 1-3 bedroom from $70,000 up to around $150,000, pretty classy place. We just purchased a 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath 120 sq mtr place in Makati from Home Gaurantee Corp an arm of the Government for $41,500 it's partially unfinished but we are sure we can renovate for less than $10,000. It's on the top 4th floor has a pool, gated security and two parking spots come with the 120 sq mtr apt. Our other apartment is a small 2 bedroom, 65 sq mtrs we paid less than $20,000 and put another $6,300 into it. Most of the inhabitants are middle class filipinos judging by the expeditions and mercedes. Lots of scams going on and I would be careful of any investments in the philippines. WE are presentlt building a 280 sq meter home in panglao near the beach and our manila place is just more or less a stopping off place, we plan on spending a month ot two there each year and proceeding to Bohol.If you are from NY City or the Left Coast you will think all prices are cheap, I'm from upstate NY and I can buy land cheaper here than I can in the provinces.

Thanks for your nice words. I will give you a run down of my experience, and I believe that will answer all your questions. Basically, I went into the business with my brother in law. I wanted him to manage the business and to have it set up where my involvement would be minimal or actually non-existant. That's pretty much how it is now, because I never get involved with the trikes.... my wife just gets the money daily or a few times a week. I bought 7 motorcycles and only 6 sidecars because I let my brother in law have one motorcycle for his personal use in exchange for his work in managing the other trikes. All of the drivers are people from my in-law's neighborhood, so we or the other family members know them and trust them. Here is our arrangement with the drivers: In the beginning they pay us P100/day to rent a trike. We are responsible for maintenance. During this initial time the bikes are in new/good shape so they don't require too much maintenance. We have bought some tires, sprockets, etc., but usually very minimal. After 2 years, the rent is increased to P150/day and all maintenance is on the shoulders of the driver. The same driver rents the same bike every day. After paying the P150 for 2 years then the driver owns the trike. At this time the unit is 4 years old, and maintenance is getting a lot higher. So, in short, in the term of 4 years I collect a total of P182,500 for each bike, which cost me P55,000. The driver gets his own ownership in the bike after 4 years and I am out of the picture. Now, potential downside.... I almost made a big mistake when I bought mine... make sure you don't do this! Check first, before buying everything and make sure you can get the franchise (get permission to operate the bikes in the area you are looking at) for the bikes. The number of bikes that operate in a particular area is regulated by the government, so if you buy the units and then can't operate them, you may not be happy! In our area, there were no openings available. Through developing personal relationships and buying a fair amount of beer I was able to obtain a franchise for my bikes, but it wasn't simple. Good luck!

I don't want to put any pressure on you but you are a great fountain of knowledge re : the RP so your wisdom carries extra weight. Lourdes and I were discussing the possibility of moving there in 2-3 years. The lure forher is obvious. for me it's the idea of seeing her really happy all the time and not 'working' again. We'd like to be in a safe area, raise a kid or two and just get on with it. As long as I could make my way back to the US for visits I would be content. I am waiting for my house to reach 70-90K in equity so that I could draw interest off of that. I have a small retirement now, plus her working as a teacher, plus a little side business would give us the 1000-1200 per month mark without touching our principle which would be held in the US. I'll be 50 in March. The thought of working for the post office for the next 12 years is not that glorious. Life is short. I would not mind trading this for that if I knew we could pull it off. That's why I joined the list. I don't want to get over there and worry about money every month as we do here. I'll trade my Big house and new cars for a simple home and a used pick up truck in a minute. no problem. But it is a big move and i hope to learn a lot here.

Nice to see you over here on this list! You might find Bohol sort of quiet too. Actually my preference is the provinces because it IS quiet. Cebu City is 2 1/2 hours away from my place and that's just about right for me. There may be some wide cost differentials by location, but I've not really noticed. Public Market prices seem to be about the same everywhere. Baguio and Tagatay might be a little more expensive because they get quite a few vacationers, but I don't know about that for sure. I think that dry goods are cheaper in Manila than most anywhere else. The figure bandied about in these lists is pretty fair, $1,000 and up should give you a comfortable standard of living. If you want to spend more you certainly can! For my own piece of mind I'd prefer to have a chunk of capital invested somewhere outside the RP just for the added income and security if it becomes necessary. I think you have a good plan, to move around some and get a better feel for the areas you like the best. Good luck!

I just came across this group. Lots and lots of good information for someone like me who's considered moving to the Philippines. However, I find the yahoogroups system EXTREMELY frustrating. It's very hard to follow old threads, even when supposedly organizing the messages in the threads mode. And then there's the EXTREMELY annoying yahoo message that pops up it seems every three messages or so. I was wondering, though I know it would be a big hassle, and past messages would be lost, has this group ever thought about/considered going to another place like delphi.com? I'm a member of a few sites there and it's A LOT easier to use and follow. I have absolutely no connection with delphi.com, it's just a much better system there. I'm sure if any of you have ever been there you can back me up on that. It's just a shame that all the good info that's in this group is so hard to access for someone coming in new the way I have. In any case, I appreciate all the posts here, and will be following regardless of where the group is.

Aw shucks, Roger! :) Everyone on the list should realize that there is a fountain of experience among everyone who has spent any time in the RP, but that our individual experiences are necessarily very narrow and biased. Collectively there is a lot to learn. I learn new things every day. Yet I think that some generalities are uniform and valid for most of us. I think you have a very good plan and it sounds like you will have your bases covered pretty well. After all, you are young enough to return to the treadmill if necessary, but I and a few others are gambling that it won't be. When I accepted Boeing's early retirement I had no idea that life would only become more busy and more fun! I had no idea that I'd be a part time expat running a grocery store in a remote part of Cebu ether, how crazy can that be?!

I don't want to put any pressure on you but you are a great fountain of knowledge re : the RP so your wisdom carries extra weight. Lourdes and I were discussing the possibility of moving there in 2-3 years. The lure forher is obvious. for me it's the idea of seeing her really happy all the time and not 'working' again. We'd like to be in a safe area, raise a kid or two and just get on with it. As long as I could make my way back to the US for visits I would be content. I am waiting for my house to reach 70-90K in equity so that I could draw interest off of that. I have a small retirement now, plus her working as a teacher, plus a little side business would give us the 1000-1200 per month mark without touching our principle which would be held in the US. I'll be 50 in March. The thought of working for the post office for the next 12 years is not that glorious. Life is short. I would not mind trading this for that if I knew we could pull it off. That's why I joined the list. I don't want to get over there and worry about money every month as we do here. I'll trade my Big house and new cars for a simple home and a used pick up truck in a minute. no problem. But it is a big move and i hope to learn a lot here.

et al, My impression, from visiting the Delphi site after reading this message, is that it is a Forum environment, not a listserve. Although many folks use the Forums on this and other lists, and check their messages via web access, the listserve option of receiving individual posts has its advantages. The advertising we get on the individual posts can be removed, and both MAG-ANAK and ASIALINK have paid to remove them. Far as changing listserve environments -- we have considered it on MAG-ANAK, but couldn't find any other with a track record, and free, that was as good as the Yahoo list, which evolved from Egroups and Onelist. Anyway, Don, if you seriously consider moving the listserve, I hope you check all your options because I believe the current Yahoogroups the best game in town.

Thank you for your comment, conwnt. I will check out delphi. If the list continues to grow at the present rate, and especially if that rate continues to accelerate, I may put it on a commercial listserver. I moved it here because listbot shut down and someone suggested Yahoo. The big problem with the list is the number of posts. But that is what makes it good too. If we could all discipline ourselves to put in good subject lines and delete the junk from replies it may be easier. But habits are hard to break and some like me are so rushed they forget. The two post I made earlier today in haste as I got up, were so confusing when I read them when they came back I didn't understand them. That was not Yahoo's fault. I find Yahoo's additional advertising offensive, but it is part of the deal. I do like the idea that Yahoo may be here when others have gone. And their service is very stable. There Web Page hosting service is stable also and not very expensive. There is little downtime on the both components. But I am happy with many of the thing Yahoo does offer, especially the back office statistics. Learning another system even when I do not know this one well does not appeal to me nor will it to others who have mastered this one and are comfortable with it. But, as I said, I will certainly check it out and give it proper consideration. Thank you for your suggestion.

I agree with you Don, and others about the differences in Filipino culture, and how we Americans seem to operate from our own perspective. And I will absolutely try my best to assimilate myself in the Filipino culture when I move there. However, I have this to ad. Culture Smulture. It is never who's right, it's what's right. Aberations are aberations no matter the culture. Those who can adjust to different cultures are demonstrating qualities, basically understanding, that produce happiness in any culture. What these post acomplish is definitely a better understanding for those of us who are contemplatiing living and retiring in the RP. There I go again with my unique ability to explain the obvious.

Wish I could make it. Flying to Butuan at 2:30 today, back to Cebu tomorrow, then on to Hawaii on Sat. I definitely would like to get together after I get back on the 20th and things are not so hectic. Thanks for the invite!