I'm a little late in contributing to this interesting thread, but I think my wife of 19 years, Joy, coped with the RP-to-U.S. migration remarkably well. She had to deal with bone-chilling Midwestern winter weather (the moment she stepped off the plane!) and the dramatic difference in culture. And then came the really hellish part: Her moves were far from over. The U.S. is a place where people keep their bags backed. Long- distance career moves are common, especially in the newspaper business, which I was insane enough to get into. Within seven months of Joy's arrival, we moved from Dayton, Ohio to St. Louis. A little over a year after that we moved again -- to New York City. Now that's culture shock. Through the early years, contact with other Filipinos was welcome medicine for Joy. We made some great friends in the early years in Dayton and St. Louis. In fact, years later, we found it intriguing that Filipinos were more tightly knit in cities that had relatively few of them than they were in Southern California, where we eventually settled. Some other coping mechanisms: Many of Joy's relatives and friends live in the U.S., and her mother has lived with us for several years (her father died many years ago). Southern California, despite the quirk mentioned above, has a huge Filipino population, shops and restaurants that reflect that mass, a great climate, and multicultural tolerance. Joy never talks about being homesick, although I can't be sure it doesn't bother her, given Filipinos' habit of suppressing inner feelings. We have talked about living in the RP part-time when we reach retirement age, but Joy isn't obsessed with the possibility. In fact, I mention it more often than she does. I would put Joy in the category of well-adjusted U.S. immigrant. When I was courting her almost 20 years ago in Manila, I thought she had the drive, intelligence and strength of character to make the move, and that's probably the biggest reason I asked her to marry me. For once in my life, I guessed right. But I'm just as certain that many Filipinos have great difficulty coping. In fact, Joy's father was one. He was sent to Washington, D.C., on a government assignment in the 1960s -- and hated the culture change and weather so much that he begged to be brought home early.

This is/has been one the most interesting series of posts for me. Here in the UK my experiences have shown that Filipinas who have found employment in small town situations seem to settle more quickly,make friends with local people etc.Those who have had their main period in London have tended to stay in an almost pure Filipino social circle and IMHO have found it harder to adapt.The pressures of working in London (many have at least two jobs) has sometimes led to petty jealousies and untypical inter-Filipino strife. Similarly,from the many posts it seems that the majority of expats in the RP are happier living outside the big cities. One of my friends,who lives in one of the fortified enclaves in MM is still struggling to adapt,he still tries to keep up with those expats who are employed on contract by foreign companies.He is still telling me that he needs an income of £2 000 ($ 2 800 ) per month to live!

Driving along the quiet beach road, palm trees swaying in the breeze, blue sky on a beautiful warm tropical day around 4 PM. Switch on the car radio and hear some good '60s music then a traffic advisory "" Good Morning, it's now 8 AM. The early morning fog has cleared and the drizzle may turn to snow by this afternoon. There has been an accident near Marble Arch and all traffic heading towards Oxford Street from Hyde Park is being diverted to . . ."" What was that? Sultan Bolkia (or his son?) likes London's ""Capital FM"" Radio Station so much that it goes to Brunei live by satellite link and is re- boadcast there (on 2 separate FM bands and on 2 AM bands, no less). The above scene is a good example of surreal. You're sitting in an air conditioned car, so you don't feel the heat or the warm breeze outside (you could be in London or anywhere with that kind of temperature). Then the radio ""tells"" your ears that you're in London, your eyes tell you that you're next to a tropical beach, your skin feels the cool air and doesn't know whether to believe your eyes or your ears.

Fantastic imagery and incongruous juxtaposition of subject matter", is the phrase I like best in describing surrealism. I think Ron W's description of his drive in Brunei is a very good example of the point I was trying to make. I do believe that I was in the throes of "culture shock" when I made my grumbling remarks about Manila. That is my story and I am sticking to it. I do find my take on the entire world is quite a bit lighter after spending the day enjoying Christmas with my children and husband. It is hard to keep a sad thought in my head after seeing the joy on their faces. What a gift to spend Christmas together as a family. I think we are going to take advantage of the time difference and try to call the extended families in the morning, I suspect that patience will be a key to success.

Has anyone taken WG&A Ferry from Mnl to Davao or Cebu? Several times from Mnl to Cebu Mnl. Once when the Hale Bopp Comet was visible, a beautiful sight. I'm thinking of taking it one way to Davao if I travel next week, figure it's a nice way to spend a couple of days (suite room) as long as there are no typhoons. I hear Cebu was getting one today, is that true Don? Yes, but very mild so far, winds gusting to 20 knots maybe. The temp is down to about 70 F I think. I know Ligaya is a little (OK, a lot iffy) about visiting Cebu, since that is where her competetion was. I would like to visit the family in Cebu if we travel there, probably alone, but Ligaya is welcome to come (I would go alone only because she is hesitant). OK Don, your comments/advice would be appreciated on this. I really don't knw, Chip. Those decisons maybe be better made by you from your gut and with more knowledge of the players than I have. I have a lot of other friends in Cebu that I would like to catch up with (expats and Filipinos) and would like to meet you also Don. I have your contact info and will give you a few days notice.

The forum and others can be accessed at www.inq7.net . It was Inquirer.net, but so many people typed in "".com"" Instead of "".net."" they changed it. I have not seen my post pop up yet. I hear there is a moderator, but from the posts on it, like ""The President should be beheaded. . ."" I don't think there is one. So I doubt the moderator stopped my post. If I can find it I will repost. Much more controversial things are going through. Most of the people on the forum seem to be of sound mind, very bright, but to many seem to be demanding total recovery of the economy, total elimination of corruption and other unlikely events no later that the last day of the first year of President's term or ouster. They accuse her of being a slave to the military, stuffing her own pockets, lying to the people, and other high crimes and treason without any proof whatsoever that I can see. There are some defenders, but few and less vocal. If you lurk on the list you may see a side of the Filipino you have not seen before, conflict and name calling, something I have never seen in public unaccompanied by retaliation, including death. Maybe it is the nature of the Net. Maybe it is because she has the former president, President Estrada in jail and his son too. Maybe it is because she is nipping at the heels of the well shod former first lady Imelda Marcos. Maybe it is because her people are pressing investigations against former Philippine National Police Director, now new senator, Senator Pacifico Lascon, reputed to be an extension of the Chinese Triad and the Philippine's premier drug lord. Who knows? The form will send you copies of posts. But it is a bit high traffic and you may, like me, have trouble unsubscribing if you let them. And there may be too much Tagalog for you taste. But I do find it interesting. When they start chewing me up should my post make it to the board, please tell them I am an lunatic and not to kill me.

I have been researching life in LaUnion for a couple of years. My wife and I are retiring in that area in 2 more years. I have a lot of information.. and I have a couple of questions that seem difficult to answer. Contact me on drmike.orv@verizon.net if you want to talk about it. My question for anyone with information? My wife and children are naturalized. If we immigrate as balykbayan, what will be my status? If she were not naturalized i.e., she held Philipine citizenship, my status upon immigration would be ""resident.""

Thanks for the info. My wife and I purchased approximately 268 sq.m in obo, dalaguete from a friend of my in-laws. My father in-law take care of it. There are coconut, and banana trees, he also grows sweet potatoes, cassava, and Gabi. We plan to build a small house there for when we visit family there, which will be about once or twice a month . However, our main residence will be in Mandaue City. My wife have a friend from Boljoon, her family name is Sestoso. Ask your friends if they know them

I have followed developments in the Philippines closely over the past few years. I write regularly to Nene Pimentel- it is surprising how easily one can establish a ""pen-pal"" relationship with PI senators. A summary of my thoughts about PI politics and change are as follows: 1. PI culture, like American culture, is at the heart of PI politics. 2. American culture is extremely different from PI culture- hence, American political structure is barely applicable in PI. Three examples follow: a) Pakikisama- American families flee the home at 18, bravo. PI families live together forever, bravo. Combine that with: b) Utang Na Loob- Americans live to be free of debt. Filipinos live to be indebted to others. c) Amor Propio- Americans divorce 3 - 4 times on the average over a life-time, some say the rate is growing. It is illegal to divorce in the Philippines. I can list dozens of additional differences (for any American who has lived in the Philippines you can gain another 100). But my examples serve to make my point. The top ranking (read governmental), PI families are inextricably related. Repaying lifelong debts (viewed as ""graft"" in US), is an essential ingredient in life. Think of the boost to PI economy by Filipina's who travel out of country to send money back.... While Filipinos may separate and reengage in other intimate relationships (and possibly at the same rate as Americans), they continue throughout life to be integrally involved in all of their relationships. In the US we have made it a federal law to catch fathers who refuse to pay for children in divorced families. Want to ""fix"" the PI government? Get rid of their culture.... We already try to ""Americanize"" them out of existence. I was proud of those Filipinos who kicked American military out!! For me, I am happily able to live in PI within the culture. I passed the 3 year exam: year 1 - exquisite tourism, year 2- stupid Filipinos, year 3, stupid me... accept, accept, accept, and smile warmly.

Americans divorce 3 - 4 times on the average over a life-time, some say the rate is growing. It is illegal to divorce in the Philippines. >> Saying Americans divorce 3 to 4 times on average is a gross exageration that I am sure is done for effect. But just to be safe, let me say the following: Most Americans have never divorced. There are half as many divorces as marriages every year, and that has been going on for 20-25 years, maybe. Factor in those who were married 25, 30, 50 years ago, and well over half of all marriages are first marriages. So the ""average"" number of divorces per American is somewhere less that .5 It should be noted, of course, that the more often one marries, the more often one divorces. Second marriages more often lead to divorce than first marriages. Third marriages more often the second. Etc. Etc.

I found your comments on the Philippines a degree pessimistic, perhaps based on too short a period of time of involvement with the Philippines. If you haven't seen the good times you can't believe they ever will reappear. I lived and worked in the Philippines during the period 1962 - 1964, and return about every 3 years for a too short period of time. The views from the early 60's were quite different. The Philippines was probably ranked 2nd or 3rd in Asia and moving up. And yes there was corruption even at that time. But I think there was also pride and nationalism and they worked hand-in-hand in a positive way. The regime of Marcos and its length, left many people with no view of how checks and balances should work, and perhaps we have a generation more greedy then ever, who also know nothing better. The Philippines as an agricultural and service country seems to be more seriously hurt by changes in the economies of major powers. When developed nations sneeze, the Philippines catches pneumonia. The long-term recession in Japan has had a greater impact upon the Philippines, from a development point of view, then has the more recent American slump. And the control of the Taipans, post-Marcos has had an impact. The image of the country, with its expanded kidnap for ransom gangs, that now go after unknown foreigners, has hurt tourism. But in my view tourism, except for returning Balikbayans, never really took off, as it did in almost every other SE Asian country. When I've looked at Davao City, which seems to be slightly outside of the economic corruption/power belt, I see a lot of good development in the city, and adjacent areas, coupled with some reasonable growth along the roads going south and west. I haven't traveled north. I see hard working Filipinos and Filipinas getting ahead. I see hotel and tourism development. I see many attempts to rationalize development. And growth, in spite of Malacanang seeming to ignore this region, and most of the rest of Mindanao. I'm not sure what the current power balances are - multi-party legislature, executive, and judicial. I will learn about some of that during the next few months, through seminars at the University of Michigan.

You make some very good points and I agree with you. You've seen the evolution of the country over a much longer period than I. I generally avoid discussing politics, especially Philippine politics! The socio-economic strata of the people I mostly deal with are far removed from the mechanics of higher government. The closest contact most have are through local councilmen, mayors or barangay captains. I think one of the mistakes most foreigners make in the RP is to try to evaluate what they see with their Western presets. Even if they recognize the cultural differences that obviously exist, they'll attempt to rationalize using precepts they've brought with them. It may be a simplistic view, but from what I've observed over the 20 years or so of my direct involvement that politicians treat the offices they win by election as their own private business. This is one of the definitions of a feudal state and in many ways that is how the RP is functioning (or not) today. In my normal travels in the RP I've had occasion to meet a few politicians. I find a few ""honest"" ones, who seem to want to bring improvements to the RP, yet the underlying motive is always #1 first! I've also come to believe that despite the actions of all of the politicians, nothing changes in the RP that matters unless one or more of the seven families who control the economy has a hand in it.

I found your comments on the Philippines a degree pessimistic, It certainly was. If you would have seen it in the context of the other messages I am sure you would understand the point I was trying to make. I was trying to make it clear that GMA has no easy task. That she is lucky if she is not assonated. Talks of a coup were flying yesterday. I have not read the papers this morning. People in the Province are starving. The world financial crisis is just one more blow to an already almost shattered county. Coupled with the Abu, and other recent problems, I the post I saw on the thread on the list I made that post this morning ""You have not seen the last of Edsa."" may be correct. If you were here, you might like me and some old time Filipinos here smell revolution in the air. perhaps based on too short a period of time of involvement with the Philippines. If you haven't seen the good times you can't believe they ever will reappear. I have been here on and off for the past 22 years, steady for the past 12 only, so have not the long time experience that you have. But I talk often to the former mayor of Cebu, his friends and others in their 70's. I have a feel for the good old days. I am convinced they are not as good as some thought and are for sure not coming back because you can't reduce the population growth, stop the ever increasing pollution and repair other irreversible damage. I do pray I am missing something. I lived and worked in the Philippines during the period 1962 - 1964, and return about every 3 years for a too short period of time. The views from the early 60's were quite different. The Philippines was probably ranked 2nd or 3rd in Asia and moving up. My understanding 2nd or 3rd is Asia was like being better than Mississippi, no big deal. And yes there was corruption even at that time. But I think there was also pride and nationalism and they worked hand-in-hand in a positive way. There folks here tell me you are right. Three was corruption. And there may have been pride. But there were serious problems and desperation too, though not as bad as today. Today I don't see light at the end of the tunnel, no way to change. I ask people what can be done. I get good answers. They say control the birth rate, stop corruption, all the list that you have seen before. Then I ask how. I get silence of or some answer that takes funds that are not available. The regime of Marcos and its length, left many people with no view of how checks and balances should work, and perhaps we have a generation more greedy then ever, who also know nothing better. The Philippines as an agricultural and service country seems to be more seriously hurt by changes in the economies of major powers. When developed nations sneeze, the Philippines catches pneumonia. True, Jeff. And sometimes pneumonia causes death. There have been some recent big sneezes and the Philippines is in critical condition torn apart not only by the usual problems but the Marcos and Estrada factions tearing at the administration, as if there were not enough problems. If the Marcos group and the Estrada group could somehow joking hands, something I think my be in the realm of possibility, though I think and feel unlikely, that would be the end of the president administration and a succession of administrations would parade over the coming years with possibly a military dictatorships. The long-term recession in Japan has had a greater impact upon the Philippines, from a development point of view, then has the more recent American slump. Yes. And when you put the two together it is really serious. And the control of the Taipans, post-Marcos has had an impact. The image of the country, with its expanded kidnap for ransom gangs, that now go after unknown foreigners, has hurt tourism. But in my view tourism, except for returning Balikbayans, never really took off, as it did in almost every other SE Asian country. You are right, Jeff, and in a very good position to know. When I've looked at Davao City, which seems to be slightly outside of the economic corruption/power belt, I see a lot of good development in the city, and adjacent areas, coupled with some reasonable growth along the roads going south and west. I haven't traveled north. I see hard working Filipinos and Filipinas getting ahead. I see hotel and tourism development. I see many attempts to rationalize development. And growth, in spite of Malacanang seeming to ignore this region, and most of the rest of Mindanao. That is true. But too many people are starving down there. Outside of Davao there are big problems. That is where you can get maids for P400 per month now. I'm not sure what the current power balances are - multi-party legislature, executive, and judicial. The Military, part of the executive, is really an entity unto itself as is the PNP. I am not as concerned about the balances, though very important, as I am the integrity. I will learn about some of that during the next few months, through seminars at the University of Michigan. Thank you for tasty food for thought, Jeff. I wish I could personally present more optimistic position. If the Arroyo administration survives, I do feel there is a chance that in the next eight years the country could position itself for a potential recovery. That does not sound like much of an achievement. But considering the circumstances today, it may be a considerable one.

So the ""average"" number of divorces per american is somewhere less that .5 The US figures I have seen are 3 out of 5 first marriages end in divorce, and 4 out of 5 second marriages end in divorce. Sorry I cannot provide a source. Your estimates could be only 11 percent apart if less than 50 percent was 49 percent and 3 our of 5 is 60 percent. With the margin of error the estimates could be less (or more) than 11 percent. But my math is like my spelling. I am interested on Stats of American Filipina marriage success. All the old guys like me marrying the young women from here especially. I know a lot work. But I know from first hand experience a lot don't. I am down 2 an 0, one and 0 in the States with a woman from the US. I must admit all but the last one with an mentally unstable Filipina who did have some wonderful characteristics were not terrible things, but growing apart. I remain friends with them all. And I wonder the success rate for those who take their wives to the States and those who stay here. I guess the US Census on the Net has a some of this, but not broken down my racial groups.

i am new 2 ur group and have been researching as much as i can about the philippines. as 4 y an american would b interested in a filipina is exactly as u said. i have been in a long term relationship w/a smart and beautiful young filipina and she has open my eyes 2 many good things in the philippines. she graduated university of phil. school of medicine at age 24 and i am 35. she is originally from manila and currently lives in the uk. i am currently living in new jersey, usa working as a computer teacher. i am currently going through marital problems and am wishing 2 move 2 the philippines w/this filipina. she wants 2 go back and i have no problem leaving the us. what can u tell me about the current situations down there and how i can get a job.....how do u compare living conditions and costs vs. wages w/the us. i have been 2 the website ""living in the philippines"". very gud i must say.

Good that you do a little homework before you move. You will find that the cost of living in the RP can be very low depending upon the style of living that you would like to achieve. In other words, your money will go much further in the RP. If you want to spend more you would have no trouble doing so. However, about finding a job and working...that is a whole different subject. You will also find that standard wages in the RP are very low compared to wages you are accustomed to in the US, but not to say that you have no other options. You should get some good advice from the list on this subject. In my case I'm on a company pension and SS and don't need a job. I have a very small little business that keeps me busy, but in no way do I expect it to support my lifestyle. If you feel that you can't retire in the RP and need a wage, you as a foreigner have a distinct disadvantage. One of the best options in my opinion would be to secure a job with a foreign (could be US) company and have them transfer you to the RP. If you can find such a job, you should expect a normal US wage with proper relocation allowances (including moving expenses and housing), retirement benefits and liberal medical insurance. These jobs can be found, but not normally within the RP. These companies should also process your visas and working permits. You could choose to go native, work odd jobs for Filipino wages and this is done too. I'll be interested in some of the other answers you will get from the list.

I know the RAO, and Jim and have mention him and his services even the website on this list. Since you are using this mailing list to advertise your site, it would be nice if you, like RAO Subic would provide a link to mine. I will be happy to put one to yours. You say you have ""ALL"" the information. I am not sure anyone has ""ALL"" the information and things change too rapidly to change the site./ That is one of the advantages a mailing list and a news letter like the Angeles RAO has. The mailing list is constant, 24 hours and carried differnt but important infomration. We complement one another and we both are selling nothing, totally non commercial. My website certainly contains only some of the information about living here, though quite a bit. The list augments it greatly with so many knowledagable expats who have their opinions, diameticerally opposed to others. Everyone has to use their own judgement. Not all are looking for the same thing. For instance I was more lonely in Angeles than here in Cebu. I found more foeigners I had things in common with here, not that I did not find a few in Angeles. There is an article coming out on Living in the Philippines on Kiplinger's Magazine in April, available in March, I believe. Kiplingers has a circulation of over a million, and is highly respected. The pass on rate is 1to 6. That is for every one copy sold six people will read it. So 6 the article on Living in the Philippine, or Retiring in the Philippines, will pass through 6 million hands. Maybe a half million will read it. Maybe 100,000 will come to my site. Maybe 5,000 will join. Maybe 2,000 will visit your site if you have a link. Now that may be a very conservative estimate. It all depends on how favorable the article is. It could bring 20,000 new members. And this is only on marketing effort I have in the works. It is also in our best interest to link together because the more links you have the higher you rate with the search engines. Type Living in the Philippines and Retiring in the Philippines in Google. Try MSN. You will see I have excellent rankings already. Should we link 40 or so may see you link on my page each day. My unique hit list is getting higher all the time. I was at 20, now at 40 and by next year I plan to have 80 and growing at the rate of five new members a day, rather than 2.5.

Great points of reference Mike, One of the travel tips I post on the wall of our small hotel near the Manila airports for our international guests includes: ""eliminate ""why"" and ""should"" from your vocabulary because once you begin using them you will give yourself a constant headache"" Like you said about your 3rd year ACCEPTANCE is the key to loving the Philippines lifestyle and appreciating the Filipino culture. I just arrived back in the States after a 6 week trip to the Philippines and can't wait until our daughter finishes high school here so my wife and I can move back to the Philippines semi- permanently. Gloria, being from a famous, educated family, married to a very rich one and being a Filipina makes her a much better leader than Estrada. But will she make any major, significant improvements during her Presidency? I doubt she can change the cultural, personal interest, family first attitude of the Filipinos employed or elected throughout the government agencies. Who could? only a benevelent dictator with an iron fist.

You have a beautiful website. I would appreciate a prominent link to www.livinginthephilippines.com on the front page of it, with a very positive comment like, ""To really get to know about the Philippines go to www.liviinginthephilippines.com and, check the site. You can join the free mailing list from there. I hope you agree that is too much to ask in exchange for your posting your commercial site on my list and the link on my site to you. It is not my general practice to allow such post on my list. I do hope we can work something out since I do enjoy your comments about the Philippines so much and we are in such harmony.

bobby t my name is mike and i will be retiring to the pi around aug to sept next year..ill be staying in cavite city till i figure things out..much as you. in angeles city you will not be lonely for sure. lots of americans and ausies. pls keep in contact ..i have a web site that gives ALL the info you need for moving. its the rao site in angeles city. seeya mike Mike is right. The RAO website is really good, especially if you are retired military and even if you are not. But ""ALL"" the information may be a stretch. Living in the Philippines at www.livinginthephilippines.com has a lot of information too, but not all the information. I don't believe there is one like that on the Net. And I believe in the archives of over 5000 post on this list there is more information than on any site on the Net for foreigners wanting to live here. The Subic RAO Website is excellent too, also free like Angeles and this one, although I don't agree with everything it says or everything the Angeles City site says. I don't agree with everything www.livinginthephilippines.com says, and I wrote it. I don't agree with all the posts in the archives, even many I wrote. Things change. But reading the post on this list, reading the extensive archives, one can get different views. They don't just get what Don Herrington though last January. They get what many people wiser than me write and feel. I do hope you search the archives using the ""expand"" command that may make your search quicker. And I do hope you don't expect to find ""ALL"" you need to know anywhere. It takes a lot of study many sites and a lot of living here to get close to all. And close may be further than you think I believe Mike, you said that you will never be lonesome in Angeles. I was. And I make friends fairly easily. And I am former US Army, many of the guys were my age. But I did not find I had a lot in common with many. Drinking in the morning at RUMPA was fine for a while, but really not to my taste. The guys are good guys, but some not my kind of people. I found the worst of the worst foreigners there, involved in prostitution, and other activities that I felt were not the best things you could do to help the Philippines though it might fill their pockets. Some guys are gems, like Jim Boyd and others. Some are sometimes sober. But there are a lot of very confused unhappy lonely people roaming around there fighting one another and with their own demons. And living where so many foreigners is like living in a walled compound in Manila. You get to know some girls, but not the culture. I suggest checking Ange! les out. But the Philippines has many wonderful places to live. Cavite is an excellent choice. Cebu is good, as is Davao. I want to know more about the mayor of Davao and approach to law and order and the safety outside the city limits. But so far no one has come forward to answer my post. I am sure they will. There are many great places to live, depending you your needs, orientation and who you are. And there are many recourses to learn more about them. I don't think one is better that the other, but I think their differences complement.

Since you are using this mailing list to advertise your site, it would be nice if you, like RAO Subic would provide a link to mine. I will be happy to put one to yours. You say you have ""ALL"" the information. I am not sure anyone has ""ALL"" the information and things change too rapidly to change the site./ That is one of the advantages a mailing list and a news letter like the Angeles RAO has. The mailing list is constant, 24 hours and carried differnt but important infomration. We complement one another and we both are selling nothing, totally non commercial. My website certainly contains only some of the information about living here, though quite a bit. The list augments it greatly with so many knowledagable expats who have their opinions, diameticerally opposed to others. Everyone has to use their own judgement. Not all are looking for the same thing. For instance I was more lonely in Angeles than here in Cebu. I found more foeigners I had things in common with here, not that I did not find a few in Angeles. There is an article coming out on Living in the Philippines on Kiplinger's Magazine in April, available in March, I believe. Kiplingers has a circulation of over a million, and is highly respected. The pass on rate is 1to 6. That is for every one copy sold six people will read it. So 6 the article on Living in the Philippine, or Retiring in the Philippines, will pass through 6 million hands. Maybe a half million will read it. Maybe 100,000 will come to my site. Maybe 5,000 will join. Maybe 2,000 will visit your site if you have a link. Now that may be a very conservative estimate. It all depends on how favorable the article is. It could bring 20,000 new members. And this is only on marketing effort I have in the works. It is also in our best interest to link together because the more links you have the higher you rate with the search engines. Type Living in the Philippines and Retiring in the Philippines in Google. Try MSN. You will see I have excellent rankings already. Should we link 40 or so may see you link on my page each day. My unique hit list is getting higher all the time. I was at 20, now at 40 and by next year I plan to have 80 and growing at the rate of five new members a day, rather than 2.5.

Have FUN in the Philippines Chip, I never bother with getting a 59 day visa and just pay at the airport on the way out. It saves the hassles like supplying bank records etc which the NYC Philippine consulate asks for like they are trying to discourage tourists from visiting and the runaround at the Manila immigration office when extending. I think the normal price for the 59 day visa is U$30 and I just paid P2540 or about U$50. For me the extra U$20 is worth it.

A friend of mine, who is not on the list, in Thailand now on ""vacation,"" told me an interesting story before he left about a young girl from the province who he and his wife brought to the city for a visit. Eight year old Miriam hand never been anywhere but in the hills of northern Cebu Island. Her house did not have electricity or running water. There were no real roads just paths very wet at times. But the area was beautiful and quiet. Neighbors were few an far. The only other children she saw we here siblings and those few who went to the small school house with three teachers for all grades one through ten. They took her to SM the monster department store here, to McDonalds, put her on the rides, showed her the video games, took her in the airport so she could see the planes take off and land and every other imaginable place you could think of to entertain a child. She seem no very impressed. When they took her home to her parents, relatives of my friend's wife, they ask Miriam were she went and what she did as my friend and his wife listened. She said, ""I don't know where I was. But it was cold! She had never been in air-conditioning before and was probably numb in the car and everywhere else but too shy to say anything about it. I met her. She is 16 now and still shy. She hide her face when my friend told me the story while laughing with uncontrollable embarrassment.

I hear you can own property at a free port zone, even if you are a foreigner. Does that mean the corporation you own a part of owns it or out right ownership. Or is it speculation. I hear the laws have been relaxed on adopting Filipino children and taking them to the States or other courtiers. To adopt one here you just go out on the streets and get one and bring one home. Ani almost did that to day with a street child she fell for. But the child disappeared in traffic, begging. If anyone has information on adoption for Stateside people please let me know. I have several friends who can't have children and would love to have a homeless Filipino child in their home and are very capable of supporting them emotionally and financially.

Adoptions are highly controlled in the Philippines due in part to the well-known easy sexual predation of Filipino children and the sex trade that is rampant in many places in the PI. Both the U.S. immigration authorities and Philippines authorities make it difficult enough that you must use agencies. The toughest part is U.S. naturalization from what I understand, but the PI immigration-exit authorities are apparently very formidable when you try to exit a child who does not possess a foreign passport. There is a newsgroup that gets only a few messages a week that you can check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adopt-philippines/ The threads should be helpful.

In a nutshell, unless you are financially secure, you may find yourself in the ""poor house"" if you move to the Philippines without some savings. If you do find employment, it will not likely be enough to sustain reasonable living accomodations. Even if you get some kind of job, you will probably make enough to live in a tin shack house or hut with little or no plumbing. My MINIMUM rule of thumb is this: for every dollar you make in the U.S., you should have double that in cash liquidity. Thus if you make $100k you should have $200k in cash liquidity. This will allow you minimum comforts with respect to your U.S. living standard. Basic rent and food is much different in PI. Unless you are not turned-off to eating dried, fermented fish or pig/chicken intestines, you will need to be financially secure to eat in a more Western way. This is my minimum standard. Unless you are ready to take a severely painly cut in living conditions, you should have funds available based on this informal standard. This should allow you to 'vacation' for about 5 years in PI before you are broke. Thus this minimum is a starting point. Ideally, you should have 3X to 4X your U.S. earnings in liquidity if you want to be able to repatriate yourself and feel like you are middle class again when you return to the states. These figures are based on living in provincial cities. If you live in Manila, all bets are off. If anything I've said scares you, then it should not... if you have never been there, there's no way your filipina friend can begin to describe it. There are many beautiful things in the PI, but there are 5 times as many ugly things (poverty, disease). Remember, Philippines is cheap and a great place for nice long vacations, but it's not that cheap! Best bet.. after your divorce is final, take your filipina friend on a 1 month vacation to the Philippines and see for yourself what kind of budget you will need to rent a suitable apartment.

My suggestion if you want to save on-line time and be more efficient (: If you're using this method then I apologise for telling you something you already know . . . . :) Always make a note of the final Message No. you finished reading during your LinP session. At the start of each new session go to the bottom of the message index page and enter the number of the next message you want to read in the Message # box and hit : ""Go"" This will bring up a list of all the LinP messages starting with the number you entered. Then hit ""Expand Messages"" which will open them all at one time in the same window (if it's not too many - I don't know what the limit is). At this point you can go off-line if you want and take a leisurely scroll through all the messages without worrying about your bill for on-line time charges. The only problem I have with the above is that the sentences in some messages don't wrap around correctly in my Internet browser window. The simple answer to this is to copy and paste the messages into a text editing window such as a blank page in MS Word which will make them readable. If you want to post a reply to LinP or a new message then you can also prepare your text off-line in MS Word (or whatever Word Processing program you have), which is what I do most of the time. If your WP program includes a spell checker then it will help you to post without errors :) Just copy and paste your text from the WP window into LinP when you go back on-line.

We have a lot in common. I'm currently vacationing in RP (in Cebu at the moment) and trying to make a decision, re: a permanent relocation to RP. I agree with Don's assessment of Angeles City. I feel it's mighty good for a vacation, but I don't think it's the best place for a long- term stay. Jim Boyd (RAO in AC) has been a true professional, and I use their mail system due to my affiliation with Uncle Sam. He's a good person to assist with questions or concerns. IMHO, you'd be better off taking a peek at several RP locales before deciding on a place to hang your hat. Personally, I've been to Baguio City, AC, Manila, Davao, Butuan, Cagayan de Oro, Lucena City, and Zamboanga (several years ago when it was relatively safe....but don't go there now!). I find Cebu hard to beat, but I'm planning a longer stay in Davao, and a trip to Damaguete and Cavite. Like you, I'd like to further my formal education. I already have an advanced degree in a technical discipine, and several credentials in Advanced Management, teaching, and other fields. I believe I'd like to teach at the university level, but I'm finding it's not a foreign- friendly environment for outsiders. I'm also considering a teaching position outside RP in more friendly places to instructors. Thus, if you have any desire to teach here, you may find it difficult, as I have, to get a paying position.

i know the members of this site have been asked this question many time but im going to do it again...can anybody give a ballpark on living expenses per month? as an average? low end..high end? tnx mike It has been asked often, Mike ... so often that I can give you a rough answer from memory of past posts. I believe we've decided that you can live in comfort in most areas of the RP, with a good smattering of western niceties such as air-conditioning and fairly frequent dining out, for $1,000 U.S. a month. For $1,500 a month, you are practically in luxury. You can get by on much less than $1,000 a month if you live more like a Filipino (but many foreigners won't want to). At the other extreme, living in Manila, in housing comparable to top suburban U.S. neighborhoods, will cost you as much or more than in the U.S.!! Obviously, there is a wide range depending on locale and how much of the western goodies you are willing to give up. If I'm off-base on any of this, I hope other list members will correct me. And please study the archives for much more comprehensive information.

I rarely repost a message by some one. But this simple one by Ray I just read when cleaning out my inbox worthy. And we do have new members who are thinking of doing business here. So without Ray's permission, I repost for those of you who may have not seen it or found it. Now Ray has a wife and some of you don't. And evidently he has one with good judgment or listens to his. If you don't have that this means nothing to you. That is the way to do it from my experience and the experience of my friends too, Ray: sound advice. I just heard more rumblings about coup rumors on TV. If some hears something solid please post. From what I understand they are making noise about a secret meeting President Arroyo had with Sen. Pacifico Lacson the one accused of being a drug lord and Sen. Gregorio Hounasan the former revolutionary who for violently trying to over throw the Aquino government had to do push ups as punishment. Her foes are saying it was a recent secret meeting. She say is was some time ago in an continuing effort to keep the government from destabilization.

reat Story and a good example of the difference between a PRACTICAL wife and a ""born to shop"" wife. Men can be VERY successful in their careers and shrewd with their business dealings but if a man chooses the wrong wife he can end up broken and homeless. Often we find immigrant Filipino Americans MORE AMERICAN than ones born here.

I just read the Philippine Retirement Authority in the Enquirer and AS USUAL they are full of Sh... with their ideas about approaching foreign companies with retirement programs and requiring individuals to put up U$125,000 for a retirement visa which it takes U$10,000 in legal fees to get back within 6 months to include in some sort of investment in the Philippines. What kind of people consider retirement in a country like the Philippines? Most likely such a person is a man who is attracted to Asian women especially Filipinas, often financially restricted due to previous divorce(s) or child support or change in careers ( men between 45 and 60 are the major targets of downsizing by corporations )and sick and tired of their own country's culture and many taxes and restrictions. Am I 90% right? Bill made some good points Adam about coming over with some capital and not expecting to find employment. For the small business entrepreneur the Philippines is a small businessman's DREAM. And if a guy can adapt to the local living conditions like living without in house hot water, telephone, cable TV, great quality beef foodstuffs, ect he can live a GREAT LIFE on MUCH less than Bill suggests is necessary. After all we ""free spirits"" who believe life BEGINS each year of our life no matter what age we are who are SICK AND TIRED of life in the modern ""Pop culture"", ""salary slave"" society at ""home"" WANT OUT. Let's face it, SAVING isn't exactly an American Way of Life. Most guys I meet have much less than U$200,000, maybe U$50-U$75,000 with a monthly pension or SS income of U$1 -U$2,000 / month often not being paid to them for another 5 to 10 years. I was just talking to a German guest of ours that's thinking about retiring in 2 years at 55 years old with only U$50,000 and U$200/month. I told him he should pick a woman with a job and get involved with some sort of small business with maybe one third of his savings.

In some ways I'm not trying to disagree with you - just saying think outside of the box. Think of some of the following. Cebu I don't believe is heavily dependent on who is in power in Malacanang. It is more dependent on the effectiveness of the Chinese-Filipino community in the region, and their investment actions, and folks like the Osmenas in leadership (the pluses and the minuses). Cebu survives coups fairly easily. Mindanao has always been financially ignored by whomever is in power in Malacanang, so it doesn't matter who is in the catbird seat. GMA is a skilled economist but is hindered by a country operating with a XIXth century economic set of practices. Folks like Lucio Tan, legislatively keep the Philippines out of the international tourism market by their closed skies approach to seats to/from Manila. The keep the number of seats limited to major places such as Singapore, and North America. But - there have been many local adaptations and you see them especially in Cebu or in Davo. There is a greater emphasis on local tourism (which Tan can encourage since internal flights are fairly expensive). Fortunately Gokongwei and some others are starting to compete and put pressure on Tan. The Lakbay network, the competition for meetings between some of the smaller cities in the Philippines, and the tourism festival emphasis all are making more local Filipinos explore what are their cultural assets. The lack of government support for many years for Mindanao and much of the Visayas, has encouraged a much greater reliance on self-initiative and projects done locally then in the past. You may all assume that I worked in a high paying urban setting. No, my friends mostly live and teach in a small rural remote barrio on the Davao del Sur-Cotobato boundary. There's still no running water, very limited electricity, no phone lines - but now many cell phones. There aren't any internet cafe's. I don't think you will see many TVs. The signal would have to travel 30 miles. No cable. But there is movement going on in that barrio. The school teachers teach, many folks move away, but they send money back to help others. The cycle goes on. And whereas when I was first there people waited for the government, now they innovate and don't expect (what never was). Don - I think living in Cebu or nearby, you have much of the best of both worlds. Lots of things not found in the very rural area where I lived, but also lots of private initiative. And yes, it goes up and down. And as to the 4th People's Revolution I don't think its going to happen. Many middle class realize that the recent EDSA revolution was run by the wealthy, not the poor. The middle class has been left out of the EDSA revolutions. I don't think they will be suckered again. Philippine real development will go hand in hand with recovery in Japan, which is still some time in the future. The things I would be looking at are items such as programming for American corporations. Some of this work I believe is now being done by Peat Marwick. India is trying to do a lot of this work. U.S. corporations are moving reservations and service call centers off shore. There are many places in the Philippines where this could work, especially handling the evening and early morning hours. Some of this is now done in Jamaica, but the Philippines would be less expensive. International tourism at least the golf stuff will pick up with the Japanese and Korean economies. Other parts depend on the development of 3* hotel rooms and prices and budget hotel rooms in Manila - that join in the international hotel market so everyone can sell them. I think international air depends on PAL being sold to another operator, and joining a real alliance with a North American carrier. Once Cebu Pacific links through Japan or Korea with Northwest, PAL will get up off of its butt. Jeff Jenks, C.T.C. - Owner - TRAVEL IS FUN E-mail: travelisfun@mich.com Call: 800 941-0049 Fax: 248 398-7859 Website: http://www.mich.com/~travelisfun Low fares to the Philippines, Asia, Europe, the Caribbean, Central & South America. For reservations & a quote E-mail me travelers passport names, ages, dates of travel, city begin in, city going to, & a home phone number. Follow it up with a phone call. Call & visit our website for cruise & tour specials.