I've recently read the posted messages about starting businesses in the Philippines. I too had wanted to try and open a business, but after reading all the advice by people, it seems hopeless. It seems that 99% of people say a business is tremendously difficult there. They say you should get to know the culture, and that if you had ten years you still wouldn't know the culture well enough. I live in the good old U.S.A. Everyday I see foreigners come into this country and start businesses. My girlfriend gets her nails done by an Asian owned nail shop. The owner told me he came here with $5000 dollars and lots of determination. He now owns 3 shops, and all his family is employed. He must not be doing too bad, because he drives a nice Lexus, that costs more than my house. I stop every day on my way to work at a local Citgo gas station. It's owned by a middle eastern man. He came over here and didn't speak hardly any english. He says it was very difficult just to understand people. He borrowed $50,000 from his brother, and $20,000 from his other family, to open a business. Next summer he told me he's bringing his oldest son here to head up another store he's opening across town. He must be doing o.k. because he was very proud to say he'd paid his family back all their money in only 2 years. My point is, that many people start businesses every day in country's they know little about. I recently recieved an email from a gentleman that owns 2 bars in the Philippines. He told me 4 years ago he went to Manilla with his total life savings of $42,000 dollars. His goal was to open a business, and give it his all. He did so well with his first bar, he decided to open another. He told me he's now set for life. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea, but he did email me a couple of pictures of him on his boat fishing. Again by the way the pictures looked, he wasn't doing too bad. That boat cost 5 times more than my car. I was briefly inspired by all this success. However I just learned something I didn't know. I read on a post that if your not related to a Filippino in any way, then you can only own 40% of a business here. It now all seems hopeless to me. I don't know any Filippinos. If I did, how many would be willing to go into business with me, or even have the means to do so? Are there many Filippino's waiting for chances to open a business with an American? I called a lawyer, and he said the government rarely enforces that law, especially if you are employing local Filippinos. I understand his point, but I'm not one to break the law. I can see it now, I open a business, I make a nice profit, and a couple years from now, when I least expect it, I get arrested by the government, and shipped back to the USA with nothing but the shirt on my back. Well, enough of my ranting and raving. I just wonder if it indeed is hopeless, to come over there, and open a business, that brings a profit.

Anyone who could catch a glimpse of what the future has in store for them would turn and run the other direction as fast as their legs would carry them. Having said that let me say that the rewards can be GREAT. An old saying: All things come to he who waits, AND WORKS LIKE HELL WHILE HE'S WAITING. Nothing is hopeless, but keep ur eyes open, ur back covered and always have a way out if u need it. From what i have seen and read about opening business there its a no no. Its a shame in one way why the Philippines government does not relax the law of a foreigner only allowed to own 40% but there reasons are that its taking something away from them. Im sure if the law was changed then the Philippines would have a chance to grow economically and become a bigger force in the Asian area. After all every nationality in the world comes to London and opens a business even the government here will give them money to start a business and many thrive. The biggest drawback there in the R.P. the country runs on corruption from the highest to the lowest It will never change IMO

It's been a while since I've posted and I will soon be leaving for a trip to RP, so I thought I'd post to just say ""hello"" to the group and ramble a bit. No specific questions or requests... I will arrive on New Years day and will visit the beautiful Philippine Islands (my third trip) for just 5 days. I will, in all probability, become engaged during this trip. Needless to say, I am very much looking forward to the future. I am still fairly young (31) and don't yet have a large nest egg built up, but reading of the life you all desribe on this list makes me long to join you. Oh, if only I could SOME WAY figure out how to generate a reliable $1000 / month income for an indefinite period! Living in a seaside house on one of the provinces with the woman who will hopefully become my wife has very strong appeal. Relatively carefree days, lots of natural beauty, a loving wife... Who could ask for more??? I think the only downer might be that it could get difficult seeing all of the poverty and often fruitless struggle that exists on a daily basis. Such kind people deserve so much better... It really struck me how it seems to be such a world of extremes and contrasts - such desperate poverty in the middle of such stunning beauty... I am employed in the computer industry as a software engineer and am SO fed up with the rat race that is corporate America! My field sort of lends itself to working from a remote location and setting your own hours. If only I could come up with an idea for a profitable website to run, do some contract programming, etc... I do have quite a bit of computer science education, but business is not at all my forte. And, being in the field I'm in, I'm obviously a left-brainer, so I lack that creative spark that comes from the right brain to actually come up with an idea of a way to use my trade to let me live among the mountains and by the sea! I am also into basic investing with stocks and options, but don't have nearly enough capital to make a go of earning a living at it. That would be another field that would lend itself to working from a remote location... So, I think I will just have to stick out a career here until I have the financial ability to retire free-and-clear. But by that time (decades), who knows if my desires will have changed, if my wife will be agreeable, etc... For that matter, who knows what kind of country the Philippines will be in 25 - 30 years??? Anyway, I won't go on much longer here. To those who made it this far, I'm impressed! I want to wish everybody the most blessed of Christmas holidays and a very, very happy 2003. The people on this group certainly seem to be very deserving of both! Take care everybody and I wish you well!

Here's what I'll do. It seems there are sooo many people wanting business advice and questions(including myself), I'll go into business with a Filippino lawyer. Heres the setup: I'll pay for a website, and advertising in the U.S. and various other country's. Then people will log on or write to us, and we'll answer any questions with up to date legal answers, at a cost of only $5 bucks an answer. Then after a while I'll expand the business. We'll then start answering questions, not only on the Philippines, but other country's as well. I'll gladly take my 40% and give the other 60% to my Filippino law partner. It's all legal, and I could get it off the ground for around $5000 dollars. I have a brother who loves web design, so he'll do the website for free. All I'll have to do is advertise to get the website out there. Even if we only answer 10 questions a day, it only costs us a little time, and the cost of maintaining the website, which would be very little. The math: 10 questions a day times 360 days equals 3600 questions. At $5 a question were talking $18,000 dollars. take out $2500 for limited advertising. That leaves $15,500. My part is 40% that gives me $6200 a year profit. That equals out to around 516 dollars a month. A little padding added on to my monthly income. AND you never know, maybe over time we could increase our website to include general legal questions on everything from car accidents to murder. Maybe we could even answer as many as 100 questions a day in a several years. Oh my gosh, my part would then be around 72,000 a year or $6000 a month. IMPOSSIBLE YOU SAY????..........Anything's possible!!!

An American owns or controls an American or other foreign company. (I am thinking of an American nonprofit and/or a Singaporean for-profit company.) Said entity contracts with a Phillipine company to essentially carry out the nuts and bolts of its operations, or at least a big chunk thereof. (And, on an informal level, it may be that the American went to the Phils, hand-picked the folks, and persuaded them to form the company for the purpose of taking on this contract, or maybe he found an existing company to take it on. Maybe the Philippine company even has a guest house for its foreign visitors.) Said American visits or even lives in the PI, and visits the Philippine company from time to time on behalf of the foreign entity.>> Perhaps I should clarify, for whatever bearing it may have on the question I posed above, that the foreign entity's primary markets (or the foreign nonprofit's beneficiaries) are mostly outside the Philippines, and its primary products and services pertain to the production and marketing and distribution of works of intellectual property. My primary intent is not to sell goods or services to Filipinos--if it were, then I would imagine that there might be more of a case to be made that my scenario is a ""circumvention"" of foreign ownership laws. I know I can contract with any firm anywhere in the world to outsource the services I have in mind, and that would eliminate my having to mess personally with attendant labor issues, regulations, benefits and the like, while I would be paying less than I would have to pay company employees or contractors in my own country. I doubt that the Philippine company would have to show any more profit than the same folks would make as employees of a Philippine company I co-owned. Moreover, it would seem that my ""say"" in the matter of what gets done and how would be, in effect, no less, by virtue of the contract between the foreign and Filipino firms. The question is, would my living in the Philippines muck things up, by way of being construed as circumventing a law about foreign ownership/management (even though clearly the allegation would never be made if I stayed in the U.S.)? How on or off track am I in my assumptions, and in the legal feasibility of the scenario?

I received a post from one of the moderators. After some thought, I feel he has a good point. I was moving pretty fast and don't always think of the new members who don't know the history of the list or the policies and practices. This moderator felt that I should explain why I deleted the post that I saw as advocating the violation of the Anti-dummy law. I have deleted such post before and explained why. We don't allow post on promoting or explaining the advantages of violating Philippine law. this List is hosted by me, in the Philippines, And because I live here, my choice at their pleasure, even if I don't always agree, I respects the laws here. I did not delete the post because it was off topic nor did not declare it banned. It is something we can discuss and a topic we have always discussed and are dong so now. And as the moderator mentioned to me, it should be an opportunity for members to understand the importance of being legal, and the ease of doing so as an investor maybe owning 40 percent of the business, or as joint owner with your trusted and loving wife. I did feel the advice was bad, but that was not the reason I deleted it. On the other issue of marrying a Filipina for a permanent resident visa, (13A) is not illegal, as far as I know, just not smart. But I am not a lawyer. It may be illegal, and certainly against the intent of the marriage contract as stated below in the Family Code of the Philippines.

RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS BETWEEN HUSBAND AND WIFE Art. 68. The husband and wife are obliged to live together, observe mutual love, respect and fidelity, and render mutual help and support. (109a) The statement above locks you into living with and supporting the ""commercial"" wife. Though you may have an understanding you are to pay her so much a month for her being you wife, ""on paper,"" she can decide she wants more and more. And the law is on her side, if you are not living with her, observing mutual love, respect and fidelity, and rendering mutual help and support. I can assure you, you as a foreigner don't want to go to court with a Filipina, a citizen of this country, when you are not in compliance with the terms of the marriage as above. If it is a strictly commercial marriage, I don't see how you could be. And I am sure the courts would rule in her favor if she filed a complaint against you. And you must remember, you still would not be the sole owner of the business. She and you would be the joint owners. Though the Filipina may enter into the commercial marriage in good faith, there are those who can convince her she is not getting enough of the pie, for them to share with her, especially if the business is very successful and even if you are not, but they think you are. Not too long ago a foreigner opened a very big renovated bar with his real Filipina wife, with who he had a child, perfectly legal. He also had a fleet of taxis and was doing very well. But his relationship with his wife degenerated as he spend more time at the bar with other women. The bar is closed now, none payment of rent when the wife took the money out of the bank and seized the fixtures including some very expensive pool tables. The wife had all the taxis taken to the province without his knowledge. She had them held there until he understood the situation she had him in. Then when he was really whipped, she offered him a settlement, her terms, take it or leave it. She could live on no money. She had money from selling the fixtures in the bar, very expensive ones he bought. She had lived without money before. It was not so easy for him. She brought the taxis back and not runs the taxi business with a Filipino partner. And as I understands, she gives him enough money to support himself. But the money to buy the taxis and the bar was his, a large fleet and a very big renovated bar. He is only receiving money because she settled with him, she has total control, and his very large investment is in her hands. She also had custody of the child who he really loves. Had this been a commercial marriage, I doubt if he would have anything but deportation papers. I cite this one case, some of it hearsay, some I got directly from him. In my years here, I have seen fifty or so similar ones, and I don't go looking for them. I have seen people over here with big money use the Filipino trustee system get involved in business with people both foreigners and Filipinos, many very well connected, who are gong to help you. They have ended up deported after their ""friends for life"" all of a sudden turned on them, and they had been drained of all their money. It is the ones who do their home work, their own research, before coming and after who stay legal I see succeed. There are a lot more than 50 of those, thousands. There are times when the trustee system works, of course. If you don't know the trustee system is one where Filipino trustees are the real owners of your business. If they are honest and stay that way, there is no problem. There are some folks who are very honest, maybe because they are very rich. Or maybe because they are comfortable or just honest and don't want or need your money. Or maybe they are just honest and you have married into their family and have children and fulfill your many family obligations. Sometimes these obligations do not require any money at all, but a lot of your time at baptismals and other functions, certainly fiestas and family gatherings you may not really enjoy. They can be very demanding. But usually in these cases, treat them right, comply with their cultural mores, respect them, and they will treat you right, unless they have ulterior motives from the beginning, or fall on hard times and need your help and you can but won't provide. Not providing to those in true need in your family is a sin here, where everything revolves around the family. They will drop you like a piece of hot rock if you don't respect the culture and them. If you don't understand why, it is only because you don't understand the culture of interdependence, in that you are one like me, from a culture of independence. It is not necessary to understand it, but it is necessary to be aware of it. Comments on legal ways to do business here or the pitfalls of not doing it right, are welcome as always. There are ways to steal here, violate or ""circumvent,"" laws. But we don't want to suggest to members that they do that, *for their own good* as much as out of respect for the laws of the Philippines. Posts on illegal ways to do thing will continue to be deleted, I hope before they get on the List, if not shortly thereafter. We do have a couple of qualified legal advisors on the list, but I guess they are too busy around this time of the year to respond. Christmas is demanding here for Filipinos with families, 99.9 percent of them.

I've given the idea of building a business in the Philippines a lot of thought over the last 18 months. After finding this group and reading the many and varied posts of questions and answers on this subject I now know so much more then I did. Witch means I still know vary little. When I retire or am stopped from working because of arthritis in my knees and back (living in the Seattle area doesn't help), I plan to move to CDO and live with my wife and son. I'll have Rail Road retirement or medical each month to live on. I know we can live on a lot less then $1500 a month, more like $600 to $800. I know this because we lived in a hotel 29 days of October of 2001 for about $1400; this includes hotel and eating out in restaurants and fast foods all the time. My wife and I like things simple and quite. The business I have though of are many, raising pigs, small restaurant, bar with pool tables are just a few. I raised pigs for about 4 years when I was in my 20s, xwife stopped that (made good money to). I've cooked both back up and grill, waited tables, did dishes. I can smoke meat to bring tiers to your eyes, make the cheapest piece of beef taste like heaven and oh so tender. I've been a line mechanic for Chevrolet. And sold door to door. Can I make money in a business in the Philippines? I think I can, not much. I don't need much, and I don't care if I make much. What I do care about is giving people jobs. Helping even one person feed there family. Nothing was ever created without someone sticking there neck out a little and taking a chance. You will never know if you don't try. Just keep your head and think things through! When I do get there, I'll take my time and find what I want to do. The main thing, keep it simple and LEAGLE. At this time I'm doing on line auctions for myself and others. When I move to the Philippines my brother and 20 year old son will take care of things state side. If anyone has things to sell, contact me off list. I'm going to be in the Philippines the first 3 weeks of January and doing some looking for things to sell, old coins of gold or silver, old knives ect. This is one of the ways I'm working on my nest egg. These are my thoughts and opinions. Hopeless no, hard yes.

Here's what I'll do. It seems there are sooo many people wanting business advice and questions(including myself), I'll go into business with a Filippino lawyer. Dear Gunner, I there is a free Philippine Law legal site at www.pinoylaw.com. It is down today but I often recommend it to members who want legal advice. I have received mixed reviews, but that is to be expected. I can also recommend lawyers, as I recommend doctors, dentist, one real estate agent I trust, and others. I don't charge or get commissions. And so far, I have not even received a discount on my own dental work. I do have a lawyer I recommend here, two in fact, depending on what you want to do. Specialist are best. Generalist are okay, but for advice without expensive research, specialist can't be beat. And who you know is as important in law as what you know, especially in the Philippines. And as they say, always get a young doctor and old lawyer. Young doctors know the new drugs, techniques, etc. Old lawyers know the right people and all the old ticks of the trade. But your idea has merit. Maybe I should charge for my services, at least the lawyers if not the members.

For those trying to figure out if you can live on 500 or less e mail off list and I will share my thoughts with you. Can you share this information with us all? I lived on $400 per month very happily and was the richest person in the barrio I lived in. It all depends on where and how you want to live. Most Filipinos live on much less than that, but don't have telephones or internet connections, cable TV, but some do have cable. And they all have TV to get the local channels. I know a foreigner who lives on $600 a good friend of mine, here in Cebu in a big house, but no maids. But he does not have maids only because he does not want one. Even some maids have maids, if they work for foreigners. I had one when I live on $400, but not live in. Living cheap is not trick in the Philippines: Millions do it. But if you have some innovative ideas, please share them with the list.

What I would like is about $350K in bonds, in a retirement IRA and about $1,800. in monthly US Social Security. From the $500K in bonds you could draw another $500. per month and probably never run the $500K out. Just don't put it in Tech Stocks. :) This amount would be nice if you did ever want to return to the US for health reasons or whatever reasons. I did return to work again at age 56, but not so sure I could be that lucky again to get hired on again at age 65 to 70 or so. Just my thoughts on this, and no reflection on my status, obviously, as that is why I have returned to the US to work 5 or 6 more years.

I have had and probably will continue to have termite problems. Stay away from using natural wood trim if possible. Probably not possible as plastic moldings and such are probably not available in the RP. I was advised to treat all wood with a product called Solignum. You can buy it at the hardware store. The best way to apply is to use a cloth and let it soak into the wood. Allow to dry and then paint. All I can do now is do this as I replace wood. Termites destroyed a whole walk in closet in about 2 years. Not sure if it would have been any different if we had been there, as the room, bedroom, was cooled about 50% of the time.

Regarding termites, I haven't been witness to any drywood termites in the Phils, only the subteranian type. My ex-inlaws have a large house in Pangasinan thats almost all wood products. The house was built over 20 years ago and to date, there is very little pest damage because of monthly termite treatments. Subteranian termites are actually pretty easy to spot and control. A little common sense will go a long way. I haven't looked,but I'm sure there are plenty of web sites that offer simple tips to minimize termite infestation. ""Jasco"" is available in the Philippines. That's the green stuff I'm refering to. Apply it on wood surfaces before you apply paint. The termites hate it! In fact, you can put it in a sprayer and use it as a termite pestiside. Find the termite trails, knock them down and apply the Jasco. Problem solved. One more tip for the expat crowd who wants carpet just like home... Termites love the jute backing when it's damp!

Though I'm not a true vegetarian, I do like my vegetables. Vegetables to a filipino is a couple of sliced green beans, in a ""whatever"" dish saturated in cooking oil or fat. Most American types of vegetables are for sale in the bigger cities though usually not fresh. There are plenty of asian type vegetables which I have slowly gravitated toward. The taste isn't as appealing as the American veggies but they work for me. I've already made up my mind that I'll grow my own (veggies that is) when I'm there permanently. If I happen to live in an appartment, I'll grow them on the patio or indoors hydroponically. If I find a house with a little dirt, all the better. If I were a vegetarian, I would view the lack of decent vegetables as a moderate problem but nothing that couldn't be overcome.

Yeah you can own 100% of your business, if you set it up at the economic zones or export processing zones. Other than that, it depends on the industry you are getting into and how much capitalization you have. Check out the website of the Board of Investments for pertinent law...

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if the current law allowing only 40% foreign ownership in a business, will be done away with anytime soon? Sure would be nice for the people of the Philippines if more foreign development entered the country. I think it would happen if the law was repealed. Does anyone know of any changes to the law over the next 3 or 4 years?

I've read a lot about the food carts that sell to people in the city's. I understand for around php 100,000 you can get one of these, and the median income of one of these carts is Php 10,000 a month. That's only $187 dollars a month, but still above average for a filippino. So here's my brilliant idea. I buy 10 of these carts and partner with 10 filippino's. In return for my financing the cart, and covering expenses, they work the cart, and I let them keep 60% of the revenue for their cart. I pocket the other 40% of the profit, and if I can average $187 dollars a month for each cart, my part would be $748 dollars a month. I figure that if I give my filipino partner the chance to earn 60% then they will work hard to make it a success. At least thats the theory. If their cart was indeed making the average profit of $187 a month, their take home would be around $65 dollars or 3469 Php. I don't know for sure, but I think thats more than the average wage for a lot of filippinos. In fact if the first 10 carts turn me a profit, I'll buy 50 more and start recruiting filippino's to work them. I do believe I can own the equipment legally. And as long as I give them the required 60%, then who could complain. I can expand into other city's, and islands, and become the food cart KING!! Impossible you say??....Anything's possible!!!

First, It is very strange and I believe inappropriate to edit original posts with comments. I think that violates general newsgroup ethics. I've never seen this before. I mentioned in my post that several of the members here are also on Mag-Anak -- many of whom I have met at meets (Jerry, Ray, Robert, and others). I wish they were there! Being a member of either list does not suggest anything in common in the way gatherings are held. Even though you yourself are a Mag-Anak member, I don't know if you ever attended a Mag-Anak meet. You should -- and might learn how to improve your gatherings. However, you might be satisfied that it serves the needs of your circle of friends. Your suggestion that this is the first complaint that you ever had insinuates that perhaps I and my family are the problem. Perhaps -- because we are more on the shy side by nature -- my wife certainly more than me. Yet we had the courage to go to a place and meet people we had never met before. We have never had this problem in any other meeting before and my description of what occurred is accurate. I hope your interests in welcoming others and being open are geniuine and although I might not be able to talk my wife into going again ... perhaps others in the future might benefit.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if the current law allowing only 40% foreign ownership in a business, will be done away with anytime soon? Sure would be nice for the people of the Philippines if more foreign development entered the country. I think it would happen if the law was repealed. Does anyone know of any changes to the law over the next 3 or 4 years?

I think a few people have been trying to say what you have said here, for some time. We have several list members with hands-on Internet Cafe expereince.. about the best one can hope for in today's market is the business might make back expenses.. barely. A few quick Google searches will find sevral hundred internet cafes in the Philippines and the average price per hour today is about PHP25 per hour.. this has dropped significantly in the past 6 months.. market saturation and competition. Also I've seen a lot of posts from mainly fellow Americans who have the theme, 'hey I know about this internet/computers/network stuff and I'll go to the Philippines and succeeed with my superior skills'. The fact is, a foreigner is going to have to get up _mighty_ early in the morning to beat Filipino computer and internet knowledge. The Philippines have been very active in technical education for a long time, and most of the angles, shorcuts, efficiency improvements as far as connectivity are well known .. as well as 'backdoor' sources of supply that strangers aren't going to find walking in the front door of a supply store. It's possible to make profits in the Philippines, but the majority of opportunities lie with efforts that capitalize on manufacturing or agriculture ... places where you can leverage the strengths ... a willing well-educated workforce that can produce at low cost, not low- margin service-type industries that are replicated on every street corner.

I have been reading your posts for the past couple of days and I thank you. I, like many others, am preparing for retirement there. Any ideas that I had about coming sooner and starting a business for the sole purpose of getting there sooner have now been dashed. I'll take the ""bird in the hand"" and stay here until I know I have enough to carry me thru. I don't have the option of failure. If I came and failed, I could not come back. (There would be no where to go) As much as I would LOVE to be there now, I'll wait for 5-8 more years and just be happy with my annual trip there. I don't mean for any of this letter to be negative. I really do appreciate your forum for it's honesty. It has given me a much needed dose of reality. I am a technician and not a businessman. When I get there, I'll look around and, as one man said, find a need and fill it. This will be more for the sake of fulfillment than enrichment. (Isn't that what retirement really is after all) I have been visiting the Philippines every year, with Sandra, for the last 9 years. I love it there. I feel ""at home"" when I'm there. When my co-workers ask where I'm going when I leave for vacation and I tell them ""I'm going home"" they simply don't understand. Until you have ridden a jeepney downtown to exchange a hundred dollar bill for pesos on the street, watched the slaughter, preparation, and cooking of a suckling pig for a lechon, thrown a party and invited the entire neighborhood for your goddaughters birthday and watched all the children's faces light up while they broke the Pinata, eaten until you simply couldn't anymore, sat on the front porch and listened to the night sounds of the town while having a good smoke, then whiled the remainder of the evening away in a wicker hammock between two huge old mango trees (discussing world affairs with your father-in-law whom you like very much) until you simply couldn't keep your eyes open anymore and then enjoyed the safe, deep slumber of a loved and protected child until the rooster crows and brings you back to a bright, noisy, and vibrant world again will you begin to understand. Life is hard there. Everyone digs and scratches to eat. They never seem to have enough, but they always manage to get their children to school. They always seem to have enough to offer you something to eat if you drop by for a visit and only the best that they have will presented. (Never mind the fact that it might be tomorrows food and they are not sure how they will replace it) You are a guest. They ask and expect nothing from you but a simple expression of gratitude and satisfaction. When you are lost and not sure where you are, ask someone and they will not only put you on the right path but, more often than not, guide you 'till your home safely if you'll let them. Make no mistake about it. If you are in one of the larger cities, if you think you are superior and treat everyone accordingly, and just (in general) make an ass of yourself, you will be made to regret it. If, on the other hand, you ""make yourself at home"" and follow the golden rule, you may be rewarded with true experience of living in the Philippines. For those of you who want to make a living there, my limited advice is this; If you can't make it here in the U.S. where you know the rules, don't try it there. You will be competing with very competent competitors. You will be playing in a game with no published rules. Like others in this forum have said, ""live there for a while and be able to call it home"" otherwise, it will be you against the world. In the end, the ""world"" will win.

Opening a business venture on your own is not easy to do especially if you are new to the country. But doing business and making money is relatively simple. I say this because I was able to make a handsome profit when I joined a Filipino developer in a housing development project 3 years ago in Cabuyao, Laguna. After that project, I was able to buy a condiminium, a property (lot) in Antipolo and was able to bring home 400% return on my $25,000 investment. This is the reason why I plan to go back this March. I want to get into another real estate project. This time in Roxas City in the Visayas. I believe it is easier to get involved with people who knows the business. A Filipino introduced me to real estate developers who build houses in the Philippines and allowed me to choose from among those developers to enter into joint venture arrangement. He has plenty of contacts and several projects on hand for investors. Just name your capacity (capital involvement) and he can connect you to the right project. You may communicate with him at his address arturo@updiliman.com and you can tell him that I recommended you to him. I was looking into another project he is handling in Bataan and see if you will find interest in the joint venture. Wish you success. I've recently read the posted messages about starting businesses in the Philippines. I too had wanted to try and open a business, but after reading all the advice by people, it seems hopeless. It seems that 99% of people say a business is tremendously difficult there. They say you should get to know the culture, and that if you had ten years you still wouldn't know the culture well enough. I live in the good old U.S.A. Everyday I see foreigners come into this country and start businesses. My girlfriend gets her nails done by an Asian owned nail shop. The owner told me he came here with $5000 dollars and lots of determination. He now owns 3 shops, and all his family is employed. He must not be doing too bad, because he drives a nice Lexus, that costs more than my house. I stop every day on my way to work at a local Citgo gas station. It's owned by a middle eastern man. He came over here and didn't speak hardly any english. He says it was very difficult just to understand people. He borrowed $50,000 from his brother, and $20,000 from his other family, to open a business. Next summer he told me he's bringing his oldest son here to head up another store he's opening across town. He must be doing o.k. because he was very proud to say he'd paid his family back all their money in only 2 years. My point is, that many people start businesses every day in country's they know little about. I recently recieved an email from a gentleman that owns 2 bars in the Philippines. He told me 4 years ago he went to Manilla with his total life savings of $42,000 dollars. His goal was to open a business, and give it his all. He did so well with his first bar, he decided to open another. He told me he's now set for life. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea, but he did email me a couple of pictures of him on his boat fishing. Again by the way the pictures looked, he wasn't doing too bad. That boat cost 5 times more than my car. I was briefly inspired by all this success. However I just learned something I didn't know. I read on a post that if your not related to a Filippino in any way, then you can only own 40% of a business here. It now all seems hopeless to me. I don't know any Filippinos. If I did, how many would be willing to go into business with me, or even have the means to do so? Are there many Filippino's waiting for chances to open a business with an American? I called a lawyer, and he said the government rarely enforces that law, especially if you are employing local Filippinos. I understand his point, but I'm not one to break the law. I can see it now, I open a business, I make a nice profit, and a couple years from now, when I least expect it, I get arrested by the government, and shipped back to the USA with nothing but the shirt on my back. Well, enough of my ranting and raving. I just wonder if it indeed is hopeless, to come over there, and open a business, that brings a profit.

I've heard that there are some areas in the hills south of Cebu (Arago, Dalaguete, Alcoy?) there are areas where cooler-weather vegetables are grown. Does anyone have any information on these Baguio-like areas?

I found the book and it is on order from Amazon.com. I thought if you were going to use it as a ""reference work"" you would like the hardcover copy more than the paperback, so that is what I ordered. The hardcover is/was only five dollars more, and the total including shipping is $19.36. My professional acquisition and delivery fee remains the same, a couple of Cerveza Negras and some conversation. About the 2000 red bricks. Yes, they will have to wait for another trip. All I am bringing with me are two suitcases and a carry-on.

I think you just went way over the border. P10000 is an average income? Don't think so and even the worst money lenders do not charge 40% of there income during the rest of there life. Now building the carts, selling them and collecting the money plus some interest might very well work although the collecting part might form a problem. Here is also one way over the border but how about leasing 2 hectares of a lake and adding some nets and other hardware to grow fish for about p300 to 400k. Then add some fish for another p150k and after 3 to 4 months you will have 30k kilo's of fish selling at p40 to p50 per kilo. You would have to endure some expenses as well so let's say about 9 people during 4 months, some food and a couple of shot guns and night vision gear to make sure the fish stays in your possession until after you have sold them. You also have to find a way to persuade the fish not to depart to soon. If now only you could find a way to avoid buying the small fish in the first place you could make some more money. Expand to 4 hectare and you can sell from one hectare at the time.

Welcome to Living in the Philippines. It is rare we get someone with your longevity here in the Philippines. And you are from an area were we have no other members as far as I know. I know you can provide us with a lot of information, especially about the Manila scene. Resource people like you who can provide insights into the expat scene here are rare. I hope you post often and share you wealth of information gathered over the years, with us, especially the members who have not been her yet or long and even the ones who have. I know you will be a valuable asset to the list if you have time to share with us. Thank you for ""I would be happy (in my retirement) to assisting any way that I can."" Can you tell us why you chose the Batangas area for your retirement over others? Do you travel? More importantly, what are the most common challenges you feel expats must meet when they come to live, do business, travel or retire here? I know that is a big bite, especially the last. But please do what you can, Dave. We always have a lot of new members, and many have never even been here. We have some old timers too, but not too many. The new members will be most interested and I hope the older residents here can add to your comments.

MANILA -(Dow Jones)- Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. on Friday said it is seeking approval from the Securities and Exchange Commission to issue up to 2 billion pesos ($1=PHP53.096) worth of one- year peso notes to raise funds to finance its capital requirements. PLDT said Citicorp Capital Philippines Inc. has been appointed arranger and also lead selling agent together with Citicorp Securities Inc. for the notes issue. The notes issue will be redeemed at 100% of face value. PLDT is controlled by First Pacific Co. of Hong Kong. In October, Philippine Ratings Services Corp., an affiliate of Standard & Poor's, assigned its highest rating of PRS 1 to PLDT's planned notes issue. PhilRatings said its PRS 1 rating indicates the ""strongest capability for timely payment of debt instrument issue on both principal and interest."" PLDT president Manuel Pangilinan earlier said that the company has earmarked PHP14 billion in capital spending in 2003 for its fixed line and cellular phone businesses. Since the start of 2002, PLDT has put in place various refinancing initiatives as part of a liability management program designed to reduce its overall indebtedness and improve the balance between its cash flows and debt servicing requirements up to 2004 by repaying half of its $1.3 billion maturing debts due for this period. PLDT posted strong earnings in the third quarter, easily meeting market expectations. Its net profit surged 39% on year in the quarter ended Sept. 30 to PHP1.4 billion on the back of robust growth in its mobile telephone operations, particularly its subsidiary Smart Communications Inc. .

In today's world, all too many of us seem to be afraid to admit sentiments like this, but there are many who hold them. Those who want to know a little about the joys and pain of helping others through developing a business (with no religious or philisophical axe to grind) might like to read two (short) books from a favorite author of mine, Nevil Shute. In ""Ruined City' (a fictional story) a man risks everything (including shady dealings in a country with corrupt government) to save a town mired in the Depression in 1930's England. In 'Slide Rule' (Shute's autobiography) he tells the true story of his journey to start, build and run Airspeed Ltd., a premier pre-war British aircraft manufacturer. A haunting scene where Shute looks out across the factory floor one day at the 'family' of workers he created, and who depend upon him, will bring a lump to any throat, and will rmeind those of us whom God has blessed that there is more to life than dying with the first nickel you ever made in your pocket. When I first read the 'It all seems hopeless' post that started this thread I really didn't know what to say, because a man can overcome virtually any adverity, except the lack of hope. But I'm proud to be associated with this group, since I've seen so many wise and hopeful responses. It truly is not hopeless.

Hi I would think they could take most of the popular memory devices, which are being used to store pictures on the digital camera, especially if it is removable. I do like the price. 39 photos printed on 4R - (4 x 6 inch) photographic paper for P303.15 . A P75 processing fee per media, and then P5.85 for each print made. Late last year I transmitted some of my digital photos over the internet to a Photographic service center in the USA. The cost was 49 cents for double prints in the 4R (4 x 6 inch) size. When I also consider shipping and handling chares, now that I can do it locally it is a lot cheaper and more convenient as well. It is hard for me to believe that an individual could beat that price with their own printer, where they have to supply the paper and the ink. Especially on paper that is as nice as photographic paper. The pricing scheme of this Fujicolor place in SM Mall in Cebu, does encourage printing a greater number of photos, as opposed to just a few. What I was thinking about doing next time, is transferring all my photos off my digital camera, work with then like I normally do on the hard disk of my PC. Then select the ones I want to print, and just copy them back temporarily to my digital camera's Compact Flash memory card. I have hardly ever transferred information back to the memory card, but it should work. Then I'm not out the cost of a blank CD, but that is pretty small now days anyway.

I know that I still have a lot to learn about the cultural norms in this country, but I have a problem with one of my in-laws that I am not sure is normal Filipino behavior, and if not, what to the "experts" recommend I do: I live with my wife, her two adult children and their spouses and four children, her nephew and his wife and six children, and a niece who works as house help. I am the sole support of these people, although the son, son-in-law and nephew are working with me developing our farm in Pototan. My wife's older brother insinuates himself into our lives in ways I find very offensive. He arrives, unannounced, often bringing his granddaughter with him, stays as long as he likes, joins us, uninvited, and without asking, on trips to the farm (these are working, not pleasure jaunts), proceeds to tell my workers how to do things and in general second guesses all my decisions. In America I would know how to deal with such behavior if I were unfortunate enough to have such a relative. Here, I just don't know what my response should be. My wife doesn't like it either, but is reluctant to say anything to an older brother. I could try to just "go with the flow" and tolerate the situation, but one of these days I'm bound to lose my cool and do something very unpleasant. Any suggestions?

Give him responsibility for some task, as he intends to take such responsibility anyways. If he screws it up, you may have gained some leverage in dealing with him. I am just guessing here, so don't assume my suggestion is based on solid insight. Your description sounds very interesting, especially in the context of the relationship you have already established with the family.

I agree with Dave. Keep a copy on your HD or a CD because if anything happens to the media card your pictures are gone forever. I also agree that you can't print photos at home as cheap as you can have them done at most labs. But I still like to do it just for the fun of it. The biggest cost of do it yourself printing is the printer cartriges. It takes a lot of ink to print photos. I've got a photo ready HP printer and a Lexmark printer made for Kodak that has Copact Flash and Smart Media reader slots built in where I can print right off the cards without a computer hooked up. But both of these really suck up the ink at $25+ per cartrige. The photo paper is expensive also but it's the ink that hurts. I'm thinking of getting one of the new HP mini Photo only printer that use the 4x6 photo paper. I still like to print for the fun of it. I also have a 35mm film scanner, negative, positive and slides that I mess with. I've got 40+ years of old film to play with in this format. I've also got an Instant DVD setup where I can hook up a VCR or camcorder so I can transfer my videos to DVD. Now I want to get a film scanner that will scan film older than 35mm as I've got tons of this type also from years past and a lot of those pictures are fading away. I've had some of those redone at a lab and that is expensive and I know I can do it cheaper.

This brother in law of yours has to wake up to the reality that what is yours is not his, even if his sister married you. It's not the first time I've heard of people with this atitude. It's obvious he wants a more defined, active role in running your farm, despite the fact that you have so many relatives involved as it is. I suggest having a heart to heart with him. IF you feel uncomfortable doing this, I suggest you and your wife do it together. Do it after a hearty lunch at your place, take him aside and let him know how you feel. I'm sure he's a reasonable man and you are a foreigner - that's always a good excuse to be different. I have to tell you though, if his brother in law were Filipino, it wouldn't make a difference. He could even be banned from the property if he gets obnoxious. Our eldest sister still has some issues with our only brother and has always given him the cold shoulder for years now. They have not been on speaking terms, but he also no longer bothers to be around when she is or even visit her house. They never sat down to discuss their problems with each other and are now at the stage where embarrassment or ""hiya"" will not get them back on speaking terms unless someone intervenes. We are all too scared of eldest sister to intervene of course. I find the situation quite sad.

I'd like to know about owning guns in Cebu. I have about 30 guns in my collection, and I'd like to bring them with me. Someone told me it costs $1000 for a gun permit, and you have to have one for every gun. If that's what I have to do, so be it. However someone else told me it wasn't legal to own a gun there. If I can't bring my guns in, what about purchasing one there? I understand there are a lot of ex- military living there. So i figured a few of you may have already gone through the process. My main interest is hunting and fishing. Is there hunting there? I can find nothing on the internet about it. If anyone has info on gun ownership or hunting in the Philippines, please post it. As a side note, I know there are some who oppose or hate guns. I respect your opinion, but please respect mine also. I don't want to recieve hateful emails. I love this group, and am just looking for info that is not readily talked about on the board. I'd like to also know if the prices for guns and ammo there are inflated? Are there gun clubs there? Thanks all.

I'm not related or married to a Filippino, so I can't get a more permanant visa. I understand I'll have to get an extension every 2 months. I have heard that there is some agency that can do it for me for a fee. Is that true? I also want to know about any fun or nice places I can go once a year for my visa run. Someone suggested I apply for a rerirement visa. I am not about to put $50,000 dollars into a bank account here, just so I can live here. My money makes far better interest where its at now. I know you can use it to buy a condo, but i am uninterested in buying property. Leasing or renting is fine with me. My main reason for writing this post, is to get info on fun 3 day trips. I know I'll love the Philippines, but sometimes you just want to get away and see more of the world around you. Any suggestions or trip ideas are welcome.