There are comprehensive post from the time when the list was new. You can download the file. Just click ""Living in the Philippines"" then on ""your groups,"" then click on ""files."" There you will see the compressed listbot file. It was put up by Robert Warren, our resident database guru, who lives here in Cebu. In the photo section you can post pictures of yourself, your family, honey ko's, and Philippine related photos, and even have your own album. Please feel free to browse it and upload to it. You can find pictures of stunning attractive people and some uglies too, (see the ""Herrington"" folder.) If you have a beautiful girl friend(s), please post pictures immediately. :) We have covered a wide range of topics. It is important to stay ""on topic."" What that means is if you want to talk about golf, that is for the a golf list or newsgroup devoted to golf. But if you want to talk about golf in the Philippines, this is where to do it. Off topics posts are a list killers. People join this list to get information about what is going on here in the Philippines and how it relates to them and here. We all try to provide that. Occasionally I may ban a topic that is related but is just too volatile to moderate for such a large and diverse group of people. Every rule is not in the book. Just use your good common sense about commercial posts, posting someone else's post (give them credit,) remember this is a non profit non commercial list. When one of the moderators or I say a topic is banned, that is the end. Please respect our judgment, flawed though it may be. We don't do it often. If you want to discuss it, do it with me off list. Maybe we can come to some kind of compromise, best for the list. Some of the topics we have covered and continue to discuss are: Getting here, including courier flights; Places to live; Cost of living and variations; Hotels and pension houses nation wide; Buying, building and renting property real and personal property; Cars, motorcycles bikes and driving; Immigration; Relationships with maids, helpers, drivers; Finding friends to relate to here; Marriage; Romance; Laws and regulations as applied to foreigners; Weather; Transportation, jeeps, buses, ships, air; Health care and insurance; Banks and money transfers; Investments; Internet quality and costs; Hiring maids and helpers; Differences in cultures; Problems with adjusting; Relationships between Filipinas/os and foreigners; Acculturation; Nightlife; Restaurants; What to do; Shopping; Duty and tariffs; Problems relocating; Doing business (many kinds); Shipping household goods; Visas; Cultural differences between different Filipinos; Languages; Politics; Travel locally; Getting an education here; Schools for your children; and others. This list seems to be the one place where people are interested not only in the ordinary practical problems like cost of living, transpiration and others, but the challenges of relating to the culture can discuss them for the expat point of view. soc.culture.filipino, a long time and successful newsgroup, rarely addresses the issues we do in the depth we do. I guess that is because it is a newsgroup where they tend to the express opinions, but not always from experience and not as structured an approach. There are a lot of arguments, flames, and arguments there. Most are counter productive But that news group is valuable too, in it own way. If you are involved in a relationship with a Filipina or Filipino you may find the Mag-Anak Yahoo list very helpful too. We complement one another. The URL is www.mag-anak.com. Ray Bacon, also a member of this lists is a fountain of information in that and other areas. You can get a lot of guidance from men married to Filipinas successfully and unsuccessfully on this list too. In the archives there are free pen pal sites, legal in this country. Some are involved in relationships and are on their way over here to meet their brides to be or just girlfriends. We may refer you to websites for answers that we don't have or don't have the time to get into. Please be aware our advice carries no guarantee. Mine is only about 60 percent right on good days. There are so many new members, living here, with all kinds of expertise, I can't name them all. We have people who are knowledgeable from as far north as Baugio and far south as General Santos City. David Harrison, Billy Reese, and Thomas Glenn are moderators. Both Dave and Billy are married to Filipinas. Dave is an editor of a highly respected US business daily, who kindly tries to clean up after me sometimes. Tomas is a world traveler, with a bent for the eloquent. When he posts I am sure you will enjoy it, whatever it is about. Billy is very helpful and always there to help when we need him, technical whiz that he is, in addition to his expertise he shares with us, and his interest in and knowledge of the Philippines. I live in Cebu City, single, at the moment, but plan to marry to Ani from Leyte soon, if common sense does not get to her first or the bureaucracy does not delay us even more. We have a some Filipina wives and some other Filipinas married and single, and a number of Filipino men. I am not sure of the demographics of the list, who is Filipino, British, Norwegian,American, male or female because I don't ask those questions. As long as people are interested in living, traveling, retiring, playing or even doing businessmen in the Philippines and they follow the list rules, they are welcome. Some members are experts in various fields Some have experience from running businesses, visas, US and Philippines, travel domestically and internationally, but no expert on romance, as yet, here or anywhere I know about. We do have a water expert, several who know a lot about alternative energy sources, pig farming, organic and hydorophonic gardening, culture, different places to live, and others. These are some of the things you may be interested in getting involved in when not relaxing with a local woman, or man, as the case may be, and local libation, be it alcoholic or not. We have some members who have businesses and post opportunities on the list. There is no problem with that as long as it is not in the body of the post, but in the signature block or reasonable size.. If you do, please let me know. We don't allow post on businesses that may be illegal or controversial to the extent of concerning our Filipino hosts. Neither I nor Living in the Philippines endorse any business proposals. Let the buyer beware, as in all business, especially in a country well know for corruption and unethical business practices, like all other developing countries and many developed ones. We have decided not to post on the terrible attack on the US, because there are better places to post on that subject. Please respect that decision. Everyone here is, of course, very upset about it. There are many lists devoted to it. This is not one. Personal attacks, Flames, are not allowed. Attacking anyone, as we all well know, accomplishes nothing. We have had very few problems in this area. Attack the position,if you will, but for sure not the person. If someone does, a moderator or I will immediately remove the offender. As I am sure you all know, mailing list are not a democracy. If they were, their survival rate would be even shorter. All list die. This one will too. Lets keep it alive and earn from and enjoy it while it lasts. This is not a place to grind your axe, especially if you don't know the languages here and don't have a through understanding of the culture as few non Filipinos do. That certainly includes me. After many years here, two Filipina wives in the last twenty plus years, about quarter million needy Filipino relatives, moderating this list for a several months and a lot of study I am still only superficially aware of what is going on. There are others on this list who know much more than I do about many things. But they don't know it all, nor do our very helpful Filipinos. But together, we make a pretty good resource, maybe the best you will find on the Internet or anywhere else for living, retiring, investing, traveling, and doing business in the Philippines. Our web page has a link to a full free book, ""The Mind of the Filipino,"" by Leonardo Mercado. It will enlighten you and is fun to read. And the site also mentions Culture Shock: Philippines, also valuable but not free. You can get it at the bookstore or on line. If you really want to have a happy life or visit here, reading these books and others can be a first step. If you have never been out of your culture you really don't know it. If you come here and get to know the Philippines or any other vastly different culture, you will have the added benefit of understating you own better. Again, welcome to the Living in the Philippines. I hope it provides you information, and even dear friends, as it has me. And I hope it will make your life happier where ever you are and where ever you are going. Just in case you have not read the""official"" list description, I post below: If you have read it or are already experiencing overload. just ignore it. Living in the Philippines: Devoted to helping foreigners who are interested in cheap quality living in a friendly English speaking country get the necessary information to successfully travel and even become an expat in the land of smiles, beautiful people, beaches and mountains. Information on culture, customs, cheap quality education, places to travel in and around the Philippines, cost and location of hotels and permanent lodging, tourist and permanent resident visas and just abut anything else you may want to know about the Philippines. The only rules are no personal attacks that sometimes may occur when heated disagreements arise. No name calling is allowed. And no Filipino bashing is acceptable, none. There are few Filipinos on this list to defend themselves and they are generally such kind and gentle people that they don't need to do so. If you don't understand the culture here, or the country well enough to understand the Filipino/as, this may be just the place for you start. To understand them enough to fully enjoy them and yourself, you may want to learn some of the language, customs and even live here for some time. You will find it a joy indeed.

Just to relate an experience on the trip: I travelled Air Canada Montreal to Vancouver and PAL Vancouver to Manilla and then to Cebu. I asked in Montreal about checking my bag. Should it be each 'leg' or only to Manila until I cleared customs. The woman said she could check it to Cebu and I let her. I thought about it most of the trip. When I got to Manila I had to go to the transfer desk where they said it likely wasn't a problem. Went through immigration. Had to go to a special customs desk where they verified it had been checked all the way and they signed my immigration declaration. Then had to go through customs where they just more or less waived me through. Arrived Cebu, picked up the checked bag and went through customs again (with a new declation, although the same) and was basically waived through there also. I am relating this as others may be flying through Manila under similar circumstances.

If I want to fund 2 kids going to high school and then college, is there a way to deposit money in a bank account, so that the money goes directly to the schools for tuition, uniforms books....everything, but that the money is not able to be removed from the bank for any other reason. Thanks again.

Ok, option number 327. If I want to open fund a sari sari store, how big must it be to support 5 folks. These folks are way below poverty level but I would like it to provide food and normal shelter for about 5 folks (two of which are married). I guess I am asking, the startup cost. It isnt my responsibility of where it located, or the operation etc, just the intial startup costs to allow a more than good chance of it working. Thanks for any information and sorry, I cant be more specific but I know nothing of what I am talking about....just looking into a one time setup.

You already know that there are a lot of variables in your question, but maybe I can help a little. How much is enough for a family of 5, I couldn't possibly guess accurately! At what level are they living now? Let's say that if 2 of 5 are working steadily at average construction worker's wages, their combined income would be in the neighborhood of P8,000 per month. If you figure income should be about 10% of your sales you would need to move about P80,000 per month. Add to that your overhead (taxes and utilities) which could be from P500-P1,500. To be conservative you should probably shoot for 90-100,000. To move this amount of material (if you are able to re-stock frequently), you could possibly get by with about 20 sq. meters. If you build this structure with cement blocks and roof it with GI and aim for a substantial secure structure, you might be thinking in terms of P120,000-P160,000. Add to this the cost of your initial stock, maybe P50,000. This does not ! take into account the cost of the property which could be almost anything. There are so many variables here that these are only educated guesses, but I hope it helps get you into the ballpark.

I'm afraid tricycles aren't in my bag! I know that the average income of the drivers in our neighborhood is about P70 per day when business is good. I've not priced them so I can't help you there. Perhaps another listener would know about that.

I can't offer an experienced opinion, except from hearsay. There are too many variables to predict whether a Sari Sari store can support a family of five. Competition, motivation of operators, skill at acquiring stock, etc. And Ray, you and the rest know that those in business for the first time often give away the store. People plea for credit, and they are hard to refuse. It is impossible for them to pay and hard to deny them a cup of rice, then another and another. When deciding on the success of a business, the experience of the managers is very important. If they have none, chances are the store will fail unless someone sits on top of them. Or at least, that has been my experience on two occasions.

You are absolutely right. Much depends upon the management of such a store. Not all fail however. I can't speak to business in the city, but in the province most all of the sari-sari's that start do fail for the reasons you've stated. Most are run from the front porch, are poorly funded, badly managed, give credit and live off of their own stocks. Of all other family run businesses, I believe a sari-sari has one of the best potentials because everyone has to eat. People can put off buying clothes when times are hard, but the last thing they will stop buying is food. Only one other business has a better business potential in my opinion, and that is the undertaker. There is a category of sari-sari that is successful. They are owned and run by experienced vendors who are business savvy and who can afford to invest enough capital to give them adequate inertia to overcome the never ending cash flow problem. Taking a look at the road from Aloguinsan to Pinamungajan (my neighborhood) just for instance, a distance of 10 km, there are possibly 2 dozen sari-sari's operating from front porches. They come and go like falling leaves. There are 4 or 5 including mine that have been established for several years apiece and who I assume are doing fine. Even so, there are other reasons to fail. One store about a kilometer from us failed after 7 years of operation when the owners started selling shabu and consuming their own stock. I believe Al's question was how much capital would it take to start a sari-sari that was to support a family of 5. There are dozens of reasons why such an endeavor should fail, but he asked to overlook the pitfalls. I would not want to invest in such a business and walk away, but that wasn't his question. One needs to assume that his family would manage the business wisely and that they would have an ideal location with little competition. Having to assume that all other factors are favorable, I believe that his 5 grand would be sufficient to start such a business.

Shabu or Ice at it is call in the Pacific Rim is the smokeable form of Methamphetamine. You can compare it in potency as you do the difference between Powder Cocaine and Crack Cocaine. it is the equivalent to crack in the US. Mostly poor people use it and it has devastated many families. It is the curse in the Philippines as it is in the CNMI, Guam, Hawaii, Taiwan, and many other island nations. The name ""Ice"" is derived from the fact that it looks like ice crystals or flakes. The majority of Ice or Shabu we find in the CNMI has its origin in the Philippines. Mainland China is also a large exporter. On the US WestCoast powder meth (Crank) is mostly used, distributed in a large part by various biker gangs, very little Ice is found there As Ron reports, Shabu in the Philippines is comparable to methamphetamine in the US (""crank""). In the US, this commodity is referred to as the ""poor man's cocaine,"" because it is a stimulant but much cheaper to produce than what imported cocaine products cost. Although I had been seeing reports since 1990 about Shabu in the Philippines, often involving Korean and Chinese criminal types (and more recently, Australians and other foreigners), I've had the impression that it's not as common as on the US west coast (where every community has conspicuous users). When I was last in Pangasinan in 1999, my brother-in-law, involved in local politics, told me that any arrests for minor possession was made a big deal in the media because it was good publicity for law enforcement.

The main difference between ecstasy and shabu, though, is that ecstasy is very expensive and therefore unlikely to be accessible to the average person in the Philippines. Only the upper middle class and wealthy nightclubbers would be able to afford this designer drug. Shabu is dirt cheap, effective and for that reason, more dangerous.

It is best that the store is managed by someone with a strong discipline in the cash flow. Many a sari-sari store go belly up when the base capital is depleted by indiscriminate withdrawal of cash or merchandise. The temptation is always there to dip into the cash box whenever a personal emergency arises. Also, there is the matter of granting of credit (pautang) that the manager should be wary of. It is best that a policy of ""strictly no credit"" be adopted at the outset. In sari-sari store operation, the bulk of profit is derived from ""wet"" goods like halo-halo, boiled corn on the cob, home made ice candy, etc. There is not much markup you can slap on canned goods and supermarket stuff. So it is not uncommon for stores to have benches in front. When my brother operated one years ago, his store served a ""carenderia"" (mini-restaurant) during the day and a small beer garden during the night. It helped send his kids to college.

Thanks alot for all that information the more i think about it the more appealing it is to me I have been to cebu 2 times and Bohol and would like to be more adventerous this time on my travel there, At the moment im not sure when i will be there but i hope for march april time (but could be later in the year), yes i would be interested in staying at your small hotel if you can give me a price for a room would be great thanks. (maybe if you can email thanks) I do know a filipino that lives here in the uk and i might go back with him he lives in a village near Manila called soldiers hill, have you heard of that place? He tells me storries of the rebels there that he has to keep paying off from the harvests of coconut it seems the country only works thru corruption.

Sorry to confuse everyone with my recent questions. The situation is that I am considering setting the family back home up with a business of their choosing. When you teach someone to fish, (or in this case, buy him the net and show him where the water is) I dont expect to have to help him throw his net on a daily basis. I dont guess my responsibility is to go there for 2-3 years just to teach someone not to drive into a tree or not to have a party and give away all the rice in one night. So, i wont be involved in the business or ever get anything for a return, just ""paying my bill" I understand exactly what you are talking about, Al. That is the way I feel too. I hope it works for you and you can live with it happily even if it does not. So many foreigners who live here and even those who don't are faced with this challenge that is very hard to meet, but does not seem that way at first. I write this not to give advice, or to answer a question but just to share my experiences with others on the list who like me and evidently you too Al, feel they can pay the bill and escape father requests for money or be free from guilt and distance themselves from further family problems. What you intend to do I have done three times, in one way or another. But it did not work for me. I am the expert at failure. One example: I build a house with a sari sari store, stocked and in a good location. I even talked to them about book keeping, ordering, and other things I had learned from a Filipina I had married who had a successful sari sari store when I married her. I watched her and I learned how she did it. It was not easy. The family I supported an tutored, the management, quickly, gave away and or ate the stock. Cash reserves were given to needy relatives. And the relatives really needed it. They were not just asking only because it was there. The family I sponsored made a lot of new friends, very quickly. The family loved it. And the friends shared in the wealth, while it lasted. I counseled them on doing business, giving credit, making deals, fighting off beggars, etc, but to no avail. I figured I paid my dues. I built them a store, stocked it and gave them a house too. I gave them a way to become self supporting and they messed it up. They did not learn to fish, at least not for the little ones. They did catch me. And despite my generosity I was not off the hook. No way. I still had money. They still needed to eat, to have medical care. They were sorry. They saw the error of their ways. They realized that if they followed my instructions they would have been self supporting, but they didn't follow instructions. They were truly contrite. So what happened. I bought rice when they got hungry and couldn't afford it. They did not learn how to fish even though taught. The only fish they caught was me. I could not stand to see the children starve. Getting involved with a poor Filipino family is an unending burden. You can desert them if you chose. It may cause friction between you and your wife. Your wife may be more disappointed and angry at them for their folly than you, as was in my case. But she loves them. She may be livid, but is she has a Filipino heart, love is stronger. Compassion always wins out with her, or you don't have a true Filipina wife who's first duty even beyond herself is her family who brought her into this world, such as it is. Sometimes I think it is just better to buy a few sacks of rice a month or what ever, an forget the investment and teaching that has not worked for me. And when you buy the rice, don't buy enough for them to give any away or sell it. When they have extra anything and they don't share it with their friends they lose them and friction occurs. Often you are dealing with people who have never owned or had anything. They just can't handle property, owning, or saving. The concept is alien. Rather than helping them by giving the money to support themselves, teaching them to fish, I got them at odds with their poor friends who they love, despite the over dependence as we foreigners would see it. There friends are as important as food. They will share their last grain of rice. Some neighbors faulted them when they stopped giving even though they had no more. The neighbors felt they were holding back and not hitting on me hard enough to support the whole barangay. I could support the whole barangay and they knew it. But I was not going to be abused like that. I had enough. I could see it would never end. My wife understood and accepted my decision. She was glad I was the one who made it. I don't think she could have even though she wanted to. If there is a solution in some of these instances, I don't know it. I am not the only one who gets involved in such foolishness. That is one reason why some of the foreigners sit around in bars talking to one another, stunned that all their attempts to help turned folks against them, not understanding they are in a different culture where friends and family are more important than money especially when you don't have any. It is an odd situation. It seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The Filipino family is a lifetime commitment. The bill is never paid. Their love for you is unending and unconditional. They will not get mad. They will just not understand why you don't share with them when they would share with you, if they had anything which all to often they never do. They will feel pain, and suffer. But they will not feel anger, just confusion as to your strange foreign ways.

You have explained my problems exactly. First, let me apologize for making ""family"" sound like ""business"", but it is my way. If my wife feels she owes a bill, then I surely accept the bill along with her. On the other hand, I understand that if given a free hand, my wife would sell our houses and cars and send it to the PI....and then expect me to make more. She is not a bad filipina...just the opposite, in her culture this would be a good filipina. In the reality of America, and my life, this is just not feasible, as much as I wish it were. So, now, I am stuck. I want to help, within limits, and I want to make my wife happy while helping the folks back home. Again, reality sets in. I cant support 24 people for the rest of their lives. Even without abuses and mistakes, I couldnt do it. So, do I walk away without the effort? I would love to go there, start a business, hire them all and ""control the situation"" so that it would work. Again, reality states, Leila loves the army. So, I cant walk away, I cant live there (yet) and I cant afford their mistakes. I refuse (maybe a bad side of me) to send support (I refuse to call this help) ever month. So, my wife feels unfullfilled, I am concerned for everyones well being and nothing gets done, so everyone loses. So, here is my suggestion for someone already over there. Start a ""consulting"" business that will ""manage"" smaller enterprises for a cut of the profit. Also include, ""school accounts"" that would manage school expenses. In short, since you are there, do the smaller, simple things that we need done until we can get there, and make a couple bucks while doing it. I dont know if this is workable but I would be glad to try to hash this out with anyone willing to try. Maybe we need to find a monk with a minor in accounting that would do it more to help than for the money.(that was a joke) Seriously, if you are there, with time on your hands, want to stay busy and help filipinos and kanos alike, this would be a great opportunity. Then, as we eventually make it over there, you will have a group of already made friends, just waiting to thank you and find ways to repay you. as a non family member, you would not be caught up in the family politics and by consult I mean, your main job would be to let it be know that things ARE being watched.

Without seeing the land you are considering it wouldn't be possible to know if you have a good deal or not. In Cebu City area itself this could be a very good price (for you), but there's no way of knowing for certain. If it's in the province it could also be a very good price, but much would depend upon things like right-of-way, water and power availability, perk tests, stability of the land and it's grade, it's drainage in the wet season...and a half dozen other factors. A person can purchase the land on their own and process all of the red tape themselves. There are also real estate folks who can act as your agent for a reasonable fee and if they do their job properly you can be reasonably confident that the title is secure. You'll find that often land has been passing down through heirs being divided several times. Often these are not adequately recorded. I don't think you will find any title companies in the RP who can insure you, but this seems to be the establish! ed procedure and you have to have a little faith! The main thing is that the property be correctly registered with the local taxing authority who themselves might be able to coach the purchaser through all of the other hoops. It seems that the word of the old timers in a neighborhood carries the heaviest weight in property disputes. They are often relied upon heavily to remember property lines and ownership's. I've had a property properly surveyed, but before the survey is registered the seniors in the community have been properly consulted. My best advice to you as a foreigner who may not know much about the property in question is to let the locals handle the transaction and remain as far from it as possible so as not to influence the price. Good luck!

I forgot to mention that the piece of land offered to us also came with squatters. (another expensive problem) That seems to be one of the major impediments to many pieces of property I've looked into. You can often get a good price on them if right-of-way hasn't been established. There is a Philippine law that would force your neighbors to give you right-of-way and there are a couple of cases being pursued in our neighborhood. Trouble seems to be that when a foreigner is involved neighbors get greedy and the case can be held up in perpetuity. Our American (the one I don't like) has this problem and his neighbors who hate him aren't likely to settle willingly. His case has been delayed for over 7 years with no light at the end of the tunnel for him. I didn't realize how lucky I was to find a small piece on the local road with water and power until I learned how difficult it is to pursue right-of-way sometimes.

In reading Don's posts regarding his past efforts to give his FilFam a way to make their own way by setting them up in business, buying them a house, etc., as well as other posts, it is evident that, when speaking about himself, he speaks with forked tongue. Perhaps most of you, at least those that have been on the list for any amount of time realize this, but for those of you who don't know it, Don is no fool, and he certainly is NOT a failure. He is a man who did exactly as his heart told him to do. Oh yes, he has learned allot, as he so eloquently states, but has he stopped helping others. I really doubt it. But, it is also obvious that there are many others on this list who are compassionate as well. Al is the latest example of that. Of course there are so many others that I can't recall, but you know who you are. Ron McCarthy is doing an excellent job with his generosity and expertise. Not being a business man, it would be foolish for me to try starting businesses for the family again. I just wanted to praise all of you who are helping others and not expecting any remuneration. That is surely unconditional love being demonstrated to the fullest. What goes around comes around.

School support. For our grand kids we use bank accounts in their parents name, with instructions that this money is for education only. They tell us when things are needed, when tuition is due etc., then we transfer money. Any other family expenses are a seperate matter. This has worked for us for many years now. We have 15 grand kids in RP. One just granduated from college as a teacher in Oct. and another is starting as a CPA. We've put another through a merchant marine school. Right now we have 3 starting college, 4 in high school and 4 in elementary school. As for the tricycle. It's been awhile but we bought a Kawasaki 125 new and had the side car built localy and I think we spent around $1200 US total. Our son ran this operation until he had a bad accident in 2000 and said he didn't want to drive any more. So we let him sell it. Sari-Sari store. We bought the rights to a stall in the central market for P25000 and stocked it for P75000 just this spring while we were there and the store is still in operation. Our daughter-in-law runs it and there are 7 in the family at home, only the oldest son works outside the home, for the city. People do need to be reminded not to use store stock for home use, unless they put money in the til. These are all just ballpark figures, but they are working for us.

I had to read you whole post before I decided that I had to agree with you about Don! I don't think he has given up. He's had some sour experiences and has learned some life lessons, as we all do hopefully. I know Don is involved trying to make a difference for the little guy. I believe he's involved himself with some of the local politics and creating jobs that can be more effective for more people than just a family looking for a business. We outsiders (expats) should realize that most poor folks don't possess a good business sense, but what does that really matter? They haven't had the means or an opportunity to learn. Fortunately a few have and you'll find them working their stalls in the public markets and going from door to door selling plasticware. You find every variety of Filipino just as you find every variety of citizen in the US or Europe. It just happens that the economy such as it is, is almost non-existent in the RP and too many people are chasing too few pesos. At ground level it is my belief that these small family run businesses help keep communities alive by keeping those few pesos in circulation. I believe that no matter how you become involved, that you can help elevate the economy just a little. There aren't any pat answers, but not to worry about how ""effective"" your help is. What's important is that you care enough to try. That leads back to Don's caring and his effectiveness which! I believe is as valid if not more so as anyone else's. No need for kudos, the real reward is in a child's smile!

In reading Don's posts regarding his past efforts to give his FilFam a way to make their own way by setting them up in business, buying them a house, etc., as well as other posts, it is evident that, when speaking about himself, he speaks with forked tongue. Perhaps most of you, at least those that have been on the list for any amount of time realize this, but for those of you who don't know it, Don is no fool, and he certainly is NOT a failure. He is a man who did exactly as his heart told him to do. Oh yes, he has learned allot, as he so eloquently states, but has he stopped helping others. I really doubt it. But, it is also obvious that there are many others on this list who are compassionate as well. Al is the latest example of that. Of course there are so many others that I can't recall, but you know who you are. Ron McCarthy is doing an excellent job with his generosity and expertise. Not being a business man, it would be foolish for me to try starting businesses for the family again. I just wanted to praise all of you who are helping others and not expecting any remuneration. That is surely unconditional love being demonstrated to the fullest. What goes around comes around.

I had to read your whole post before I decided that I had to agree with you about Don! I don't think he has given up. He's had some sour experiences and has learned some life lessons, as we all do hopefully. I know Don is involved trying to make a difference for the little guy. I believe he's involved himself with some of the local politics and creating jobs that can be more effective for more people than just a family looking for a business. No, not yet, and never. I do prefer to help on a macroeconomic level. But you have to take care of the family too. When I say being a member of a family is a lifetime commitment, I don't see that as bad. They are committed to you too, in a very different and perhaps even more loving way. I just want to point out to those who have had little experience with this culture, if you efforts to help don't work or even cause pain, don't blame yourself or blame the Filipinos. As pointed out, you can't expect people without business experience in any culture to succeed, especially in a country where, generally, people are more important than property, not so in many countries. I see people here spending their life savings on treatments for dying patients, family members, who have no chance. Is that a bad thing? I have a relative now, eight years old who has a disease and will need medication for the rest of his life. It is possible he is autistic too. We will find a way to take care of him, whatever his problem is. He is very valuable to us. There are hard decisions to make here. I have counseled many here, as a psychologist with some expertise in cross cultural relationships, from the Peace Corps and other formal and informal training and experience. I often need counseling myself and have a good counselor here. And I use the list as a sounding board too. There are some very bright and insightful people here, not just in maters concerning the Philippines but with an understanding of life in general, if there is such a thing. They can make your life easier if you can open up to them, on or off list. If I gave up, I wouldn't be here. If I were not here, I would not be happy. There are problems here, but real problems worth dealing with, not what kind of new car to buy and how to get the best price, which investments to go into and what to stay out of, the kind of things I worried about in the States. I don't have as much excess money now as I had in the States, but mainly because I was working. But I have a lot more joy in my heart and enjoy spending the little I have, much more. I have learned how to draw the line on helping, sometimes necessary for survival. Helping is an art. And thankfully, it is a fulfilling one. Giving up on this wonderful country and its people has never been an option. If you live here for any length of time, it is your only true home, the only place you feel you really belong, I feel you will feel the same way if you don't already. So many do.

I read your e-mail with interest today. Thank you for taking the time to write it. You make many good points and i'll not even try to take issue with anything you've stated. I've never been to the Philippines, but I have some filipino friends here on the internet. I've always found them to be warm gracious people that I feel fortunate to know. I hope to meet them one day. Thank you for your insight and I look forward to reading more from you.

I know this is not all that responsive to what you asked, but my fiancee just bought a small building lot in a subdivision, supposedly high and dry even during typhoons, with road frontage, sewer, water and electricity for 200,000 pesos less 10% for cash. This is outside of Lucena City, perhaps 2 to 4 hours to Manila, depending on traffic. It's important, as Ron has said, to be sure that the property is not in a flood-prone area. In Lucena I saw whole subdivisions that have gone bust, with houses abandoned because the subdivision was in an area that flooded during typhoons. I can't figure out why locals would have bought lots in those places. I understand that typhoon flooding is not so much a problem in Cebu.

I do not live in Dipolog, but I spent a few days there and at nearby Dakak resort in September. It is a clean city, appears to be safe (there are two entrances and it is said to be safe from Abu Sayyaf due to the difficulty of covert retreat), has plenty of ATMs, good food, the trimobiles are tall and more comfortable for taller visitors than in the northern part of the country (not sure why). It is much ""brighter"" than many cities I visited in northern Luzon. Precipitation is light and the area is mostly immune to typhoons. It is cheap to stay there due to warnings from foreign government of terrorists threats (though my impression is that there is no threat in northern Zamboanga according to the residents I conversed with).

Thanks for your nice words. I will give you a run down of my experience, and I believe that will answer all your questions. Basically, I went into the business with my brother in law. I wanted him to manage the business and to have it set up where my involvement would be minimal or actually non-existant. That's pretty much how it is now, because I never get involved with the trikes.... my wife just gets the money daily or a few times a week. I bought 7 motorcycles and only 6 sidecars because I let my brother in law have one motorcycle for his personal use in exchange for his work in managing the other trikes. All of the drivers are people from my in-law's neighborhood, so we or the other family members know them and trust them. Here is our arrangement with the drivers: In the beginning they pay us P100/day to rent a trike. We are responsible for maintenance. During this initial time the bikes are in new/good shape so they don't require too much maintenance. We have bought some tires, sprockets, etc., but usually very minimal. After 2 years, the rent is increased to P150/day and all maintenance is on the shoulders of the driver. The same driver rents the same bike every day. After paying the P150 for 2 years then the driver owns the trike. At this time the unit is 4 years old, and maintenance is getting a lot higher. So, in short, in the term of 4 years I collect a total of P182,500 for each bike, which cost me P55,000. The driver gets his own ownership in the bike after 4 years and I am out of the picture. Now, potential downside.... I almost made a big mistake when I bought mine... make sure you don't do this! Check first, before buying everything and make sure you can get the franchise (get permission to operate the bikes in the area you are looking at) for the bikes. The number of bikes that operate in a particular area is regulated by the government, so if you buy the units and then can't operate them, you may not be happy! In our area, there were no openings available. Through developing personal relationships and buying a fair amount of beer I was able to obtain a franchise for my bikes, but it wasn't simple.

If I'm not mistaken, I think you are misinterpreting Don's experience with hiring the housekeeper. Arrangements such as hers aren't quite the same as that of an indentured servant where work is done on contract to pay for a debt. What could be happening is that when someone borrows from a friend or neighbor they may offer the use of one of themselves or one of their progeny to work for them in exchange for only their courtesy to make the loan. There is seldom if ever a written contract. Just an educated guess, but the aunt may owe the money or a favor to the other family and the niece has been offered as a payback courtesy.for the giving of the loan. These ""arrangements"" may last indefinitely until life circumstances change or until the lump sum of the loan is paid back. Everyone is happy with the arrangement including the niece because she is working at a time when jobs are very dear. Don enters the picture with a better job offer. If she were to just quit and move over (even with notice) like you and I would readily do, the family she is working for could feel insulted and the niece's family would loose face. When Don takes care of this obligation, everyone will be happy. There's nothing unethical or immoral about it. It isn't slavery at all because the girl is receiving a salary and could voluntarily quit at any time (though it may be upsetting to all). It's just another part of life in the RP. You as an employer have many choices. You may choose to hire household help for a fixed salary per month and offer nothing else. Everyone would think you are stingy, but you still won't lack for applicants because jobs are scarce. It would be more ethical to give perks and this is done quite often when the employer has confidence in the help and can afford them. One of the basic perks is giving them their meals. Another would be in giving them a time off. Another might be to cover their basic medical needs. Many employers will give a Christmas bonus which could amount to another month's salary. The lady of the house might give her some used clothing. All of these things are voluntary.

Iligan is called the city of waterfalls, since there are about 20 waterfalls in the surrounding area, 7 nearby and 13 are within 20 km. The most popular is Tinago Falls and there is even a zoo beside the natural pool. To go there, take the jeep bound to Buru-Un (same jeep going to Maria Christina falls and Timega Springs). Timago Springs are now equipped with several resorts, each of them having swimming pools at different levels. There are plenty of restaurants around. The less visited sights have some kind of basic refreshment available nearby. The tourist office is very helpful and provides information about the other waterfalls.(for the more adventurous,of course,go to the falls without a referral by the dept.-find your own place without me telling you which one)One of many places to lose yourself in the Philippine Islands on the north coast of the Big Island-Mindanao between Cagayan de Oro City and Ozamiz both places you can fly or take an inexpensive ship from Manila or Cebu. Anyone ever been to any of these waterfalls with their wives or family? Have any photos to share? Sounds like a good romantic adventure for some newly weds, eh?

You're right on both counts as far as I can tell. Separation of church and politics is the only way birth control will gain acceptance - as long as it's a sin to practice birth control, the population (now around 80million, almost 1/3 of the U.S.) will continue its alarming growth. And those hard-working Filipinos abroad seem to make for lazy ones back home. Unfortunately, without that cash, the PI would probably be in much worse shape (less economic stimulation).

In the Asian Culture, especially the Filipino one politics and religion are insupportable according to Leonardo N. Mercado, ""The Mind of the Filipino,"" accessible from the web page for free. I accept his and other cultural scholars similar conclusions. It is consistent with everything I read about this non dualistic culture. I think the mistake we make as westerners is thinking we know what the Filipino wants. We think we know what is best for them. They often are not interested in going the same places we are. I see foreigners telling Filipinos you can get ""that"" if you to ""this."" Often Filipinos don't want ""that."" They want to do ""this"" and that is the end in itself. Mercado's writings in the ""Elements of Filipino Philosophy,"" covers the Filipino concept of causality in depth, totally unlike the western concept. Without understanding the mind, motivations, directions and culture of the people a lot better than I do we can only make western judgment we know are right for us. But they may not be right for the Filipino. ""In America we . . ."" is the constant refrain of the guy from the US here. This is not ""America,"" and these are Filipinos, not Americans. So many Filipinos have told me that is the one thing they get most sick of hearing the foreigner say. ""In my country we. . ."" Filipinos tell me, ""Then why don't they go back there and do it."" Filipinos must decide their fate. Our input is really rather useless, unless we have Filipino cultural values running through our veins. Having children is more important than having money to many Filipinos. Not to most westerners. We are right and they are wrong, is our usual assumption. For a westerner to think otherwise is to make him culturally insane in his culture. For a Filipino to think money is more important than children makes him culturally insane in his. But there has to be balance, the westerner says, from his cultural perspective. That is the Filipinos decision, not ours. And the balance the Filipino chooses may not suit us. But it may suit the Filipino. I never forget I am out of my culture. I draw few judgments here. I don't understand the culture I live in well enough to find any fault. I see happy people, often without money. I see smiles. I see love. I see acceptance. I like it here. I am happy with them deciding their own fate. I think the big mistake they made was letting the first foreigner set foot into this beautiful land. And those hard-working Filipinos abroad seem to make for lazy ones back home. What lazy ones back home? The ones like the one I have who works her butt off in my house for $40 per month. She would take a $600 a month job overseas in a second, and send it home like her $40 per month here. If someone gets paid 50 US cents a day for back breaking farm labor as she had been getting before she came here, I can understand why after about ten years, they may seem lazy. But offer them a decent day's pay for hard work and watch them jump. So many pray to go to the States and when they do they get two jobs and work for less than others in the US. Some pray to just be able to get to Cebu and make $30 per month. They are the same ones considered lazy here beause they did not want to work hard for less than a living wage. When motivated with money or what ever it takes to push the buttons, no one is lazy. The concept of original sin is western, not eastern. All people are good here. Some are temporarily possessed by devils. But that is not their fault, so the Filipino culture here sees it as I feel and read it, knowing I may be wrong. Unfortunately, without that cash, the PI would probably be in much worse shape (less economic stimulation). With additional money the Philippines may get to the point where they have 20+ suicides per 100,000 like the US rather than less than one as it has now. I have posted these World Health Organization (WHO) statistics before. To me the suicide rate is a good indicator of general level of happiness in a country. Suicides happen most often, from the last WHO statistics I read among the rich not the poor. Is there some lesson in that? Want riches or smiles? Can you have both? As a culture, I am not sure.

Family planning will forever be an issue in the Philippines, because, as a Catholic country, the Church will always follow the teachings of the Vatican and will never recommend family planning. The only type of family planning that the priest and religious people will teach is the natural method. I hope you will respect the Philippine culture as it is and not force it to change just because in your culture, that is how things are done. I know it has its bad sides and because of it, we are a poor country. But we're not the only poor country in the world that has this problem. Changing this part of the culture is hard. Not even Former President Ramos was able to effect it considering he's not a Catholic. Just because Cardinal Sin is vocal doesn't mean the entire church is like that. In Cebu, the Cardinal is Cardinal Vidal and he's not as vocal as Cardinal Sin. So I don't think it's a church and state thing. The church and the state in Cebu is pretty segregated. By the way, the separation of the church and state is in the constitution. You can't make it more clear than that. It just so happened that Cardinal Sin is pretty vocal. But not all priests are...Cardinal Vidal always remains neutral.

Bravo Don! Your years in these islands has sure taught you a lot of things in understanding this culture. Just for the record, there are lazy Filipinos, same as there are lazy members of society in any nation, but most of us work and work long hours for less pay. There's the farmer who plants rice from 4:30AM to 6PM with breaks during the hottest part of the day. Office workers who work 9 hours a day for a little over $120 a month with tax. A salary of $200 a month here is considered high in most places. Be very happy if you earn double that.

Condoms are still available at health centers. It has never stopped. If family planning was so effective, the birth rates should have gone down already but it hasn't. Sure, educated people will plan their families. But that doesn't mean all Filipinos do so. We can only hope.

I've watched subtle changes and there is a uniqueness to this evolution. Service in politics is often regionalized. Money flows not on an even process - but around election time, through pork barrel projects. The taxing level and effectiveness in the Philippines is quite different from the U.S. Not all people in the Philippines are fatalistic (God wills it - so why try and make changes) The rural thinking process is not necessarily the thinking process found in major cities and urban areas. The internet changes thinking - since it stretches so far into the country, as does the cell phone. The information revolution will have broad changes on the country. In the Philippines women take religion fairly serious. Men don't. The supposed unity of religion and politics I don't think is universal. In the Philippines, people clearly understand church ""values"" such as no abortions. Yet government frequently, and Catholic physicians often dispense birth control information, condoms, etc. They are not as single issue minded as here in the U.S. The President may speak out against abortion, but then quietly support funding for birth control, as a national agenda item. One of the phenomena of the Philippines, which magnifies dynasties, is a copy of the U.S. but more extreme. So we see names continue on - such as Osmena, Duterte, Diokno, and Lopez. Here it's Kennedy, Bush, Daley or in our central city of Detroit - Kilpatrick. Part of the problem with the Philippine structure is that it is now a multiparty system, created to avoid the past dictatorship of Marcos, but now with its own fractured style of operating. I suspect you will see some tweaking of this structure over the next few years.

Am I correct from your statement above that you are saying Filipinas are not lazy, but Filipino men are? That is about the only way I can read it. Forgive me if I am wrong. I assume you have lived here and understand the problems men have getting jobs. I assume you understand a woman can get a job at a department store, as a house maid, a waitress and others that a man cannot. Women are even taking the guard jobs now because they accept less pay. If I have read your post correctly it seems to me that you feel men would not accept a good paying job, with status, responsibility if it involved work. I do not believe this is true. I have Filipino men asking me constantly how they can find employment, any employment that will pay them a living wage. I have men come over and work at my house on weekends when they could be playing to make a few extra pesos fixing something or helping in any why they can. Is this your experience. Maybe not. Maybe mine is an aberration because I am a foreigner and they are just trying to get into my pocket. With some, I feel that is the case. But with most, I don't think so. I just wrote too many Filipinos completely depend on the money they receive from relatives abroad. I know many hard working Filipinas here as a second or third ranking citizen. I agree. Who's fault is that, not that we should place blame? My Filipina wife suffered discrimination even when she was making a six figure income as a stock broker. Why was she not accepted as an equal with other US born women and men in the US. She always got the worse leads and did just as good or better. And she made her own leads. She is still there. She loves her country and misses it. But she takes care of her family here along with her brother who is a policeman in Palm Springs who also contributes and works hard. They both want to come home. But, family first. The brother does not send as much money as she does because he does not have it. But he sends everything he can. They send every penny they earn every month to the Philippines. The family in the Philippines don't realize this. They think you can just pick the money from the trees here. Compared finding money in the Philippines, it is just about true that you can pick money from the trees. Anyone who wants to work and is a little literate can make money in the States. That is not true here. Most Filipinos I know here, know you have to have a education and money to get to the States. And they know that people are not standing under trees with baskets to catch money, but working hard in sometimes cold and uncomfortable country, away from their language and their friends, both men and women. They appreciate what they get and want more. That is human nature. It is not a sin to want more or to ask those who have to help you when you can't help yourself. Some go home and find out their husband is already living with another woman and their children never finished any education. This system is destroying Filipino family life and culture. Some do and some don't. Focus on what you like. It is certainly not a healthy situation for family unity. Men who work overseas find their wives have taken up with another man too, maybe not so often. It is obvious that being apart is not good for marriage, for the man or woman. you seem very fatalistic about Filipino culture. It means nothing will ever change. Are they happy with no money and just children? So why so many wants to work abroad and earn dollars? I hope the good parts never change. ""So why do so many wants to work abroad and earn dollars?"" you say. Maybe it would be better to phrase it as ""Why do so many have to go overseas to earn. Why cannot they earn enough at home?"" My point is Filipinos don't *want* go abroad to make money. They want to make money here, but have to go abroad because it is not here. I feel it is because of their value system and culture. I feel it is because they were raped first by the Spanish then by the US in with their good intentions to civilize them, make them like the westerner. That was the point of my post. When you try to change the very character of something by imposing your values on it, and by force as in the case of the US when we invaded and declared war on them, there are problems. Change has to be slow and natural and come from within, from with acceptance from he people within the culture. Surely the Spanish and the US, even though they had their own interest in mind, felt they were doing the best to help. But look what has happened to the United States first foray into imperialism as Mark Twain, Samuel Clemens put it. (I wish I could find his essay on US Philippines relations, brilliant work, even if you don't agree with it.) This is a country that was dominated by the US until 1945 and then still was still under strict trade prohibitions with our military on their soil. Even today every Coke or other of the US products and services that is sold money goes to the States. We dominate the markets here. They don't have the money to spare. But we still take our cut. And we should. That is businesses. That is a way a country must behave to protect the best interest of their citizenry. We are helping now, for the same reason. To help ourselves. And it will help them, unless there is a coup that I feel is very possible if not probable, and soon. A good read if you have not experienced it, is ""In Our Image"" Stanley Karnow, America's Empire in the Philippines. Karnow is a reporter a journalist who reported. You can make your own conclusions. He does not do that for you. This is a new democracy, a form of government not chosen by the people, but essentially mandated to them as a condition of their freedom. It is a small country with many people, still divided geographically, linguistically and culturally. It is a country often wrecked by natural disasters. It is a country where a few families rule and feudalism still reigns, despite the efforts of many to extract themselves and others from that system. I think they are doing a pretty good job after starting in a deep hole of happiness and plenty to over crowding and want. Maybe there are some things that should never change. Yes, I am fatalistic about those things, yes indeed. I believe that you, Lucien, have a deep concern about the plight of these people, especially the Filipina. But I also feel you are missing part of the picture, for some reason. I believe you have to emerge your self in the culture, get to know the men, not just the women, get involved in the languages and the local social activities here. And then, if you are not a native born Filipino, you, like me, will probably still not understand. But you will see more than you can now, and maybe more than and old man like me. Living in other cultures helps. If you have lived in other western countries other eastern ones, your perception sharpens. Unfortunately, life is to short to live everywhere. Books and the Internet help. But, there are always blind spots. I certainly have mine.

ONE out of four women in the mainly Roman Catholic Philippines has had an induced abortion, mainly after being forced to have sex by their demanding partners, a government agency said Thursday. ""Sexual relations, child bearing and child rearing are still dependent on men as the ultimate decision makers"" in Filipino households, the Population Commission said in a statement. The situation is complicated by a ban on abortions, forcing women with unwanted pregnancies to go to unlicensed or unregulated abortion clinics. ""Due to lack of options, women risk legal and religious condemnation and even permanent disabilities and the possibility of death to commit or seek out abortions,"" the commission said. Citing results of a national population survey last year, the government agency said ""one out of every four women had induced abortions, and a range of 80,000 to 120,000 end up being hospitalized"". The commission said 36 out of every 1,000 babies in the Philippines die as a result of the endangered health of mothers, while 172 per 100,000 mothers die from pregnancy-related complications. Contraceptive use, which is banned by the Catholic Church, fell to 47 percent of Filipino women last year compared to 49 percent in 1999, the survey found. While many women want to postpone having another child, they are ""married to men who want another child soon"". ""This situation deprives women of their liberty to negotiate more freely and decisively on when to have children, and even when to have sex."" The Philippines has a 2.3 percent birth rate, one of the region's highest. ""Women who have no education and control over their minds and bodies often submit to their male partners' decisions and sexual needs, even if it runs against their wishes,"" the commission said.